To have found my first mammogram really upsetting?

[YompingJo]

Got a letter through with very basic details if an appointment. Turned up and found the whole thing demeaning. Tiny room, intimidating machine taking up most of it. The radiologist was monosyllabic and bossy and manhandled me into the right position including grabbing each breast and shoving it into position, pushing other bits of my body out of the way, not once asking first. I know it's a necessary procedure, but a bit of sensitivity would have gone a long way, and having the respect to ask for consent before grabbing a breast is a basic consideration. I'm autistic and needed to know much more what to expect beforehand. The letter gave a way to request assistance in the case of SEN, but I don't consider myself to have SEN and didn't know what I'd need until I was right there, so that wasn't any help. There was a QR code for feedback, which I gave but I just feel... invaded and demeaned. AIBU?

Well let me help you, because she wasn’t asked for consent

How does that work?

Radiologist: "You're here for a mammogram. Do you consent to me touching your breasts?"

OP: "No"

End of process.

Okay.... Make it make sense.

Don't swear at me thanks. I said I wonder what the radiographer's recollection would be? Perception of an incident as 'grabbing' is not an indisputed fact you know? It is her recollection and interpretation. I am fairly certain the radiographer would say she moved or touched her appropriately. But of course please just continue to spout your vitriol.

That's good but women don't all have the same experience though. I've had tons of pelvic exams, most have been fine and don't bother me at all,the last one was horrific and quite frankly if I had that HCP again I'd walk out.

People need to remember that pain/ discomfort is what the patient says it is.

Men with lumps in their breasts are checked using the same machines as women. (Breast cancer kills more UK men than testicular cancer).

Firmly IME.

As per my pp, the machines are also used for men, god knows how.

You're comparing apples and oranges. And statistically, only a tiny number of men will get breast cancer.

If all men were routinely called in for a mammogram you can be sure there would be a new method of doing it invented at warp speed.

Please report them. 💐

Well exactly. And I am sure that has happened more than once. That is why consent, even if it is "I am just going to ..." to give the patient a chance to say no, is legally essential. If you aren't warned you can't say no. "Just being there" is not legally sufficient. If for instance an doctor deliberately touched a woman's breast without saying anything first, even if the examination was expected, then the GMC would regard that as a sexual assault.

Yanbu, I was recently examined by a physiotherapist (only my back and hips) and he politely asked if it was okay to place his hands there, requested me to move my own hair out of the way, explained what he was doing at every step etc. All very considerate and respectful.

So I’d imagine that something like a mammogram, I.e. more intimidating and potentially sensitive, would definitely necessitate the same level of consideration. Sorry you were made to feel uncomfortable

I do not agree. When you have an operation you have to give explicit written consent. The NHS operates under a framework of set rules and guidance. If they deemed 'consent' to be required for the mammogram, then this would be in place. The fact is that they don't deem this necessary as your interactions in attending are well founded enough to deem to have non verbal consent- and telling someone you are doing something is not the same as asking for consent. Are you saying that the mammogram procedure without specific consent is not legally sufficient? You best tell the NHS that they have it all wrong...

for instance an doctor deliberately touched a woman's breast without saying anything first, even if the examination was expected, then the GMC would regard that as a sexual assault.

Agreed, but OP was there for a mammogram, not a swollen foot but ended up having her breasts touched.

I went for a mammogram at the end of March. Got a call back first week in April. Diagnosed with early stage lobular cancer and now facing mastectomy, radiotherapy and hormone treatment.

I read through the leaflets that came with the initial mammogram appointment and it stately very clearly that the procedure would involve being handled by the radiographer and at times would be uncomfortable. This is in the nature of the examination. I was repositioned several times, the radiographer handled each breast and moved each out of the way in turn when scanning the opposite side. There wasn’t much conversation apart from asking me to move my arm or head a certain way to facilitate the scans.

Not once did I feel invaded or demeaned because I had prepared myself for what was to come. The issue of ‘consent’ doesn’t apply here - you know it’s a mammogram and you know you will be handled, so by turning up for the examination you are giving consent to do what’s necessary. If you felt as though you needed extra support the facility was there for you to contact them. Mammogram isn’t a pleasant procedure OP, but perhaps be grateful you live in a country where it’s offered. Because one day, and from my own personal experience, when you least expect it, you may have cause to thank your lucky stars it was there.

I beg to differ. It's sounding more and more like this behaviour IS the norm for a lot of people. The few times I've been seen for anything gynae related, those treating me, their attitudes sucked!

Doesn't matter where a procedure is taking place and/or by whom: people should ALWAYS be treated with respect and dignity.

And as for 'let's check our privilege' 🙄

Why is it legally essential ? Everyone knows what a mammogram entails, and from my own experience, the leaflets accompanying the appointment didn’t leave much to the imagination. If you’re going to say ‘no’ to the essential positioning to allow the mammogram to be effective then you might just as well not go. After my diagnosis the doctor had to do a physical examination where the tumour was located. The breastcare nurse explained what would happen, but the doctor didn’t ask for explicit consent to touch me - and nor did I expect him to, he just got on with it.

What's your evidence for that assertion?

I'm not denying that it's horrible, and in particular I always quake at the thought of how tough it must be for frail elderly women with osteoporosis, who are normally outside the scope of screening but do get mammograms if they have symptoms.

But you're stating as a fact that there's definitely a less painful way that inventors aren't bothering to come up with, and I don't think that's justified.

It's not like PPE/stab vests/hard hats, where it's blatantly obvious that they could fit women better if the manufacturers/purchasers gave a toss about women's comfort.

That is a horrific view of medical care.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer three weeks ago as a result of a mammogram. That’s my take on it too. Sorry.

Wow, why do you feel it necessary to be so dramatic? We are lucky to have a health care system that is free at the point of need, and which provides health care screening irrespective of contributions made. There are many countries that do not. Stating this is not horrific. I think you need to calm down a bit.

Why on earth would you think that ? The radiographer was just doing her job. Mammogram involves touching and repositioning. The idea that each time requires specific consent is ludicrous. Everyone knows what mammogram involves, there are accompanying leaflets which explain the procedure. It’s a breast exam so it shouldn’t come as a shock to think that your breasts will be touched. Having just had a breast cancer diagnosis I feel very privileged to have had free access to routine screening that will possibly save my life by diagnosing the cancer early enough to treat it successfully. Surely that’s the most important thing here ?

I’m sorry you had that experience op. I haven’t had a mammogram but have had scans and examinations on my breasts. It’s a very vulnerable feeling and every time I have been examined, the health care providers have been very sensitive, asked for consent before touching, explained what they are doing etc. That’s how it should be and there’s no excuse for the lack of sensitivity shown to you. Yes, they might be doing mammograms all day every day, to me that should mean they are seasoned pro’s at making people feel comfortable x

And this is where words matter.

I’ve read grabbed and I’ve read manhandled from others.

I have honestly never been grabbed at by any health professional. I’ve certainly never been ‘manhandled’. Have I been moved, examined, positioned in a matter of fact fashion? Yes. Has it felt impersonal? Yes. And as said, I prefer that. I can understand why some would not.

I can understand feeling vulnerable being topless - I understand that it is uncomfortable and not a particularly pleasant experience. I understand it may be unsettling having someone move you into position.

Our Health authority sends out a fairly comprehensive leaflet. I was also aware of how it might be (family history of breast cancer).

The reception might know it is a first time. That isn’t to say the person doing the scan does. And walking in would be the time to mention it.

Would it be wonderful if they had the time to sit everyone down to explain? Yes. But they don’t. Five words might have made all the difference. ‘It is my first mammogram’ and the experience could have been completely different.

It is no excuse to be rude or to grab during a medical procedure. But it is a world away from being matter of fact and positioning. And I have always been told ‘I need you to put your breast here - and only then do they position you/move your breast if necessary. I’ve never just walked to the machine without instruction to do so.

Only OP will know what happened here. If it was really rude and involved grabbing? It needs reporting. If it was professional, matter of fact and positioning? No.

You're asking me for evidence for an hypothesised conclusion which I obviously can't provide.

Not sure what you're arguing really.

I think the system is barbaric and can be done better. I suggest that if men had to have their testicles pulled out by someone, placed between two metal plates that close together via a foot pedal control to the point where the testicle is painfully squashed, some other diagnostic would be invented.

I mean, most guys won't even contemplate a finger up their bum for a prostate exam.

But women have to just put up with this type of shit. 🙄

The idea that consent is given just by 'turning up' is bullshit - I'm frankly horrified that so many on here think that.

Anyone who knows anything about consent knows it can be withdrawn at any time. So I'd say some forewarning AS the procedure is taking place - especially for an intimate exam like a mammogram - is vital.

In any event, THIS OP says she was uncomfortable. So SHE is absolutely within her rights to complain about her treatment.

What anyone thinks of that, is neither here nor there.

Incorrect: informed and implied non verbal consent is given by the free will of turning up, the clear information provided in the leaflets that show your breasts will need to be placed on the machine. You are the one who is talking 'bullshit' I am afraid.