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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask that people STOP giving incorrect Legal advice!!!

241 replies

PoisonMaple · 27/04/2024 08:14

I see this time and time again.

Stop it. Especially in family matters.

I get it, some information is generic and helpful, but seriously, the details!!! Stop it. These are people who are struggling and looking for understanding, give it, but stop giving Legal advice unless you're qualified to do so.

No, you are not garaunteed spousal maintenance.

No, you cannot name the OM/OW in Proceedings.

No, you cannot delay your divorce to force the other side into financial disclosure.

No, you are not going to get to keep the house because you've been at home with children. Even if you do get the house, it'll be for a set period of time until the Courts deem that you need to sell or find an agreement which allows the other sides longterm housing needs to also be met.

No, you cannot just 'get his payslips,' get your 'ducks' in a row, screenshot the messages, and then assume that you'll get a better settlement with all this evidence. You won't.

'Custody' is not a thing. Your child(ren) will live with and spend time with.

No, you cannot ensure PR remains only yours. A Declaration of Parentage is simple and straightforward, as is the process to prove you're a parent and get PR, even abusers are entitled to that. It does not guarantee contact, but you can't stop PR by not adding to a birth certificate. Especially if the other side is persistent and wants that right.

I understand more than most how emotive a marriage/relationship breakdown is, both the human and legal aspect of it.

The bottom line is this, every matter is different. The process may start off the same, but the outcome is not the same each time and never garaunteed. A settlement that I can get for 1 client is absolutely not going to be the case for another client, even if their circumstances are the same.

OP posts:
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7
PrincessFionaCharming · 27/04/2024 12:36

Apologies if I have missed this, I have just skimmed the thread.

Is the OP a solicitor…? Because that’s some Martha-esque SPAG…

Mumof2girls2121 · 27/04/2024 12:40

It always makes me laugh when people want to name the OW/OM in divorce proceedings- no one is going to read them, it won’t be on the news, no one cares except the divorcee 😂

Silvers11 · 27/04/2024 12:41

@PoisonMaple You are not being Unreasonable at all. and I entirely agree with you, with one small caveat.

'The ducks in a row' may not mean anything in the legal sense, but given here on Mumsnet by posters it surely makes sense to make plans to leave, especially in DV or DA cases, where failing to secure important documents ( passports, birth certificates etc) have an idea of Finances ( especially if people don't know what their partners financial situation etc) could make things even more difficult for some, and to my mind that would also include seeking legal advice/ speaking to women's refuge / Citizen's advice or anywhere else depending on the circumstances

Thepeopleversuswork · 27/04/2024 12:44

I don’t see the harm in posting advice as long as you reinforce the fact that no one should make a life altering decision without speaking to a lawyer.

Surely everyone knows this?

stripycats · 27/04/2024 12:49

I had several free 45 minutesish sessions with solicitors when looking for one and we did go through some of the specifics of my case. Can't guarantee some weren't paralegals but the solicitor I eventually instructed was definitely a solicitor and she was also the one who did the free session with me in that case. I have no idea why people get so arsey and adamant that these sessions never happen, when they do. As if posters are going to read a post advising that the free half-hour is an entitlement and then march into any solicitor's office without an appointment demanding a free session. Some offer them, some don't and it's very easy to find out which is which and go from there.

NOTANUM · 27/04/2024 12:50

This is where Reddit is better. On the LegalAdviceUk sub, any posts unrelated to the legal side of the question are removed. For example, “can I change the locks on my cheating DH?” Gets any non-relevant replies removed like “Take screenshots, get your ducks in a row”. Literally just deleted by active mods. Mumsnet just doesn’t have mods like that.

My other Mumsnet peeve is the super sensitivity and not tolerating debate, and keyboard warriors showing zero empathy to struggling women. It’s vile and makes me spend less time here.

Nottodaythankyou123 · 27/04/2024 13:14

Completely agree!
Also the ducks in a row thing - all my payslips, pension stuff, bank statements etc are all online, as are my DP’s. I thought that was common these days!

saveforthat · 27/04/2024 13:17

PoisonMaple · 27/04/2024 09:43

Clearly a typo: understating was supposed to say UNDERSTANDING.
Understating a case makes zero sense in this context. But let's not apply common sense.

Would you like some help with that stick?

Show quote history

See I thought you meant undertaking so not just common sense but mind reading required.

Teentitansgo · 27/04/2024 13:18

Not quite the same thing but I feel the same about the HR advice I see on here, which is nearly always terrible until 3 pages in when someone actually gets it right.

Personal opinions on what others should or shouldn't morally expect to be entitled to at work, stated as fact, without any appreciation at all of what the actual legal entitlement is.

Sweetheart7 · 27/04/2024 13:21

Darhon · 27/04/2024 08:54

I’m not legally qualified but do sometimes post to clarify that you’re in a remarkably shit position if you are separating and don’t work or work in a low paid job because you’ve given up work to provide childcare because the current approach is for clean splits with as near as 50:50 financial settlements in most cases. So spending loads on solicitors in the hope of something better is pointless. Different if there has been abuse and where legal aid might be possible and a more complex situation regarding access to children. There’s normally a few posters on each thread pointing this out as well.

But of course people may approach you desperately hoping for the better outcome, because let’s face it, it’s a pretty scary place to be with young kids or a lifetime of not working because you looked after the life admin/kids/relatives to find you’ll be in a financially precarious position.

Exactly. I can't understand why OP is upset. Just because someone posts in desperation doesn't equal they aren't going to a seek a solicitor at any point.

pearlevu · 27/04/2024 13:26

Sweetheart7 · 27/04/2024 13:21

Exactly. I can't understand why OP is upset. Just because someone posts in desperation doesn't equal they aren't going to a seek a solicitor at any point.

Show quote history

Yeah it's not like they are going to stroll into court and start quoting mumsnet

Sweetheart7 · 27/04/2024 13:28

@pearlevu the irony of OP is real. MN is often bonkers I think it just depends how people feel that particular day. What is even more bonkers is people assuming we believe everything on MN... I can only account for myself but I just take some things with a pinch of salt! 😅

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 27/04/2024 13:32

whoneedssixteen · 27/04/2024 12:20

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain However, from my experience, this 'free' service is mostly to gauge what the client wants, especially if it's re divorce and usually it's not giving any concrete advice, it's just a 'tempter' appointment and a way to draw the client back into considering using them for their e.g. divorce

Exactly - the "free advice" is like the supermarket giving you a cube of cheese and a recipe leaflet - it tells you what you're likely to get and what you might be able to do with it - and isn't of much use on its own. Law firms need to assess whether there is a case that they can take there, (eg the Common Law Marriage myth), and how much it might be worth (he owns nothing and she won't get legal aid - case not worth taking); and the Client needs to get a feel for what she might be able to do and how she feels about the law firm who might do it.

So OP isn't wrong. No solicitor will give "free legal advice" as such. And won't actually do anything for you. But they will tell you whether they might be able to do something for you.

I also agree with OP about the quality of what people "advise" on here. (And her typos were clearly typos - evident to anyone with half a brain - and common when using phones with time keyboards and predictive text!)

Edited

But in my employment law case I was given free legal advice. I remember because I used it. They allowed me to take notes. I mean I was going to leave my work anyway but wanted to know was if what someone had said at my work could be debated (it was re references) and luckily the lawyer from what I recall said “go to a Partner, see what they say and if they can rectify this”. I think it was along the lines of “yes they can give a bad reference if there’s a reason or proof to do this” but would be hard to prove in your case and so “dates and time worked” which was what we agreed on, was the best outcome.

If I had had to use them for a further employment law service I would’ve used them though, because they were professional, nice and friendly. I was offered tea and biscuits in a nice office too. I had no idea really about lawyers up until then. And it was during the morning when I’d taken time off work to go there.

I’d been there 6 years with an unblemished record but during the last year had refused to do something (I thought this was pointless) which had briefly got me into trouble.

Moonlane · 27/04/2024 13:33

You can absolutely name the ow or om.

pearlevu · 27/04/2024 13:35

Moonlane · 27/04/2024 13:33

You can absolutely name the ow or om.

How do you know this? Are you a lawyer? I have no idea you could just be anyone.

saveforthat · 27/04/2024 13:40

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 27/04/2024 13:32

But in my employment law case I was given free legal advice. I remember because I used it. They allowed me to take notes. I mean I was going to leave my work anyway but wanted to know was if what someone had said at my work could be debated (it was re references) and luckily the lawyer from what I recall said “go to a Partner, see what they say and if they can rectify this”. I think it was along the lines of “yes they can give a bad reference if there’s a reason or proof to do this” but would be hard to prove in your case and so “dates and time worked” which was what we agreed on, was the best outcome.

If I had had to use them for a further employment law service I would’ve used them though, because they were professional, nice and friendly. I was offered tea and biscuits in a nice office too. I had no idea really about lawyers up until then. And it was during the morning when I’d taken time off work to go there.

I’d been there 6 years with an unblemished record but during the last year had refused to do something (I thought this was pointless) which had briefly got me into trouble.

Show quote history

I also had a good experience with an employment lawyer. Really excellent free advice.

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 27/04/2024 13:41

Moonlane · 27/04/2024 13:33

You can absolutely name the ow or om.

I thought I'd read that you used to be able to if you were divorcing on the grounds of adultery, but last year or the year before they brought in no fault divorces so I don't think you need to give a reason anymore.

changefromhr · 27/04/2024 13:43

Teentitansgo · 27/04/2024 13:18

Not quite the same thing but I feel the same about the HR advice I see on here, which is nearly always terrible until 3 pages in when someone actually gets it right.

Personal opinions on what others should or shouldn't morally expect to be entitled to at work, stated as fact, without any appreciation at all of what the actual legal entitlement is.

Edited

Oh yes! Especially when someone pipes up about adjustments at work, omitting to mention or even understand the word 'reasonable'. People with the 'they can't sack you if you are disabled'. I feel sorry for posters who believed this and got fired.

NoWordForFluffy · 27/04/2024 13:44

Heynonymouse · 27/04/2024 10:02

Actually, I'm with VestibleVirgin. The meaning of understate is to reduce the importance or complexity of something.

In the context of legal advice, paralegals understating a case could lead the client to believe their situation could be simply and easily solved in fewer billable hours than would actually be the case. Thus luring them in to accept a contract with a law firm they might not choose otherwise.

Since your clarification, it is now clear this is not what you meant, but understating was not 'clearly a typo' and most certainly does make sense in this context.

As a client of yours, I'd be concerned as to what other typos you'd make ...

Show quote history

Or any other kind of mistake!

Ayesha Vardag, divorce lawyer and President of Vardags, photographed at her office at 10 Old Bailey, London

Firm pledges full support to lawyer over online divorce mistake

Court decision is the kind that makes people run from the profession, Vardags founder says.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/firm-pledges-full-support-to-lawyer-over-online-divorce-mistake/5119365.article#

TulipCat · 27/04/2024 13:50

Meh, MN is an unregulated chat forum. People should take everything with a pinch of salt, be that advice, opinion, anecdotes or recommendations. MN should never be the only place you source information from.

InSpainTheRain · 27/04/2024 13:51

I think YABU OP. Firstly, you won't stop people doing it so why get het up about it; secondly, why not produce a factsheet for guidance and post it (rather than criticism). Yes every case is different, but what do you think people should do generally? What is worth doing? That could actually help rather than saying what doesn't help.

TheCadoganArms · 27/04/2024 13:51

Half the fun of this place is reading the half baked crack pot advice dished out by loud ill informed morons thinking they are an authority on a subject because they watched a few episodes of Suits or Ally McBeal.

Grumblevision · 27/04/2024 13:53

Misthios · 27/04/2024 11:51

I think people would prefer to get 200 responses on AIBU along the lines of "that's awful, poor you, sue for damages and you're entitled to six weeks off work" than posting on a forum for dedicated legal advice, and getting 2 responses from people who do actually know what they're on about.

Yes, I think there's a soothing effect that's being sought out, that cushions the reality of what has to happen. The difficulty is when this becomes accepted as reality. I stopped expecting actual useful advice from any kind of forum a long time ago.

VestibuleVirgin · 27/04/2024 13:54

saveforthat · 27/04/2024 13:17

See I thought you meant undertaking so not just common sense but mind reading required.

Show quote history

Yep, comprehension (because most of us do understand context!) wasn't the problem, it was being lectured by an 'expert' who then couldn't see the irony of the typo in that context...
😀

Thistooshallpsss · 27/04/2024 13:58

I would just add advice on benefits is very frequently wrong there are good free sources of information out there and as with other issues the answer is probably it depends

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