To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

[AbstractThought]

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

For young people it is about building relationships with adults when they have uninterested or shitty parents.

We had that with teachers. Mainly though it wasn't an environment that would have allowed for antisocial behaviour at all.

Everyone's experience brings valuable data points. No need to sneer.
Something has changed, you've said so yourself. Let everyone contribute then maybe some common thread can be found

I went to youth club for my entire primary and secondary school years. It was brilliant and made a huge difference. This was in a very rural area so it gave us somewhere safe to meet with friends.

It was somewhere we could relax, sit with friends and chat. There would be discos and parties. There would also be annual outings which I remember so fondly.

This was the early to mid 80s. I remember that it used to cost 20p a night.

By all means contribute but it is very disappointing when people cite nothing but their own experience. Many of these people roaming the streets with nothing to do and nowhere to go live in absolute destitution, the likes of which many of the people on this forum will never know. It's so blinkered, but then again I suppose many people must be so. The problem with being blinkered is you probably don't even know you are. Which is why I'm pointing it out.

Many of these people roaming the streets with nothing to do and nowhere to go live in absolute destitution, the likes of which many of the people on this forum will never know

I don't think it's just that, though. The country i grew up in was far poorer than the UK and many of the families in my village lived in what would be regarded as poverty. It was just a different society, and that is my point. Antisocial behaviour and lawlessness isn't an inevitable outcome of financial poverty. It's more complex than that.

There's actually a vast amount of tolerance in UK society of poor behaviour and that is a factor too.

@Lonelycrab - had to check I hadn't posted that myself- it is100% as I see it too.

Yes but I imagine if you're taking about your upbringing then you're talking about the past, in which case the UK had less plainly visible crime on the streets a couple of decades ago. Time is a major factor in this case, in this country in that time, flagrant criminals have been able to design policies in government, and rampant capitalism has caused a breakdown of the family unit, along with tech which is isolating people more and more. The gap between the richest few and the impoverished many grows, with those in between encouraged to feel good about themselves because 'they're not one of those toothless wastrels on the street'.

Yes, and it's the mum, let's be real.
I'm a feminist and support women having access to the same things men do.
But a man having a crappy job and keeping things just about afloat financially and a mum at home and in the community keeping things afloat there, crappy though that can be in its own way too - is better than both having a crappy job, still just about afloat financially and struggling with the home stuff. Not a new observation and no individuals fault and it doesn't have to be gendered. Just women's work has always been invisible and unpaid but certainly not worthless. If indeed that is having a bearing on what we are seeing now.
I dunno. I don't have a well crafted argument here just observations

It isn't about the families just about managing, it is about those who have been pushed into not managing. That has always happened to some people, but it is happening to more and more people.
And it is not simply about poverty. It is about community, it is about services that help people to cope - in some very poor countries churches play a crucial role here, and most of all it is about hope or a lack of hope. People can go through a lot if they believe things will get better.

I don't think that's true on any count. There was plenty of navel-gazing and doom-mongering after the event but what use is that? I voted to remain.

The conservatives since Margaret Thatcher set the rot in train - and Brexit can't be blamed for that.

It was managed decline. Still is: but less well managed. Brexit was obviously going to accelerate that decline very significantly: effectively take the brake pads off the car heading towards the cliff. So the PP is right that though it wasn't the cause of the current issues and other things since have also pushed down the accelerator pedal, certainly nobody who voted for Brexit should be moaning about how much worse things have got in a short time because they are also culpable for things being so bad at this point, when they would have been significantly better than they are if all other factors remained (haha) the same.

Agreed. Children are being denied decent education and people being denied basic healthcare in part because the cohort of people you describe are draining all resources from society. They have never and will never contribute anything useful to their communities (and no I am not referring to disabled people: they are among those being disadvantaged by this). At the other end of the scale the very wealthy are happy to let this happen because it doesn't impact them. Therefore everyone who actually works for a living and is not asset rich - even if earning what most would consider "high salaries" - are gradually becoming poorer and poorer. I can't see people facing up to these realities until it is too late to have a hope of changing things.

I agree with those who are the most difficult group. They exist in any society. No resistance from me. The money needs to be put into trying to break the cycle so any children they have go on to lead better lives.
But they are not the people I was talking about. I was talking about those who are on the edge, but can lead decent lives under better conditions.

why would anyone wish to put a country into (managed) decline? you'd have to be deeply disturbed. saying that, i see it all around me but can't grasp why.

Oh, please. A lot of the places that voted leave were already living this appalling reality. Too many people didn’t give a shit because it didn’t affect them. This country doesn’t know how to stand together.

Hilarious cognitive dissonance there! How was voting to make everyone poorer going to make those who didn't want to everyone poorer want to "stand together" with people whp had done that to them? Not exactly a way to get people on your side, is it?

Exactly, we visit Asia quite a lot and people have a fraction of our wealth and yet by goodness do people work hard. Recently in Hanoi all I saw was people working long hours whether it's selling food or repairing tyres etc. They understand the concept of effort vs survival. I didn't see beggars, people living on streets etc. Everyone was trying to make a living. The lady owning our hotel works from 5am to 11 pm. I actually felt safer and less crime out there in the evening then I would in a UK city. I never once got threatened by drunk agressive people. The UK is full of people wanting something for nothing and blaming everyone else. The government needs to fund the police to reduce antisocial behaviour. To be honest we rarely go into cities, they are so depressing. The lack of police presence is a factor .We stay in our bubble. We will become a very divided society in the future if not like the resturant scene in 'Demolition Man' where the haves get chauffeured to fine resturants whereas the streets are full of roaming underclass.

Your story is really insightful, thanks for sharing

This sums it up

OP i thought you were describing my home town for s moment. But that’s somewhere else entirely

Time for a change

Voting won’t solve much.

Well yes, the factor I pointed to was parenting. There is no way in hell I would have been allowed to be out roaming the streets as a kid past a certain time. We played in the street and sometimes went where we weren’t supposed to go but were indoors at a decent time, other parents would 100% grass us up and there would be consequences. I had a pretty free range childhood compared to my own kid as well. This was the 80’s not the 1950’s or anything.

I think also the idea that it is poverty that equals anti-social behaviour may not always be true. If you are anti-social you may struggle in school, struggle to get and keep a job maybe not even bother in the first place because you don’t particularly value these things. There is going to be a very small number of people who live in poverty because they can’t behave in a pro-social way. I don’t think it’s true for the majority I think the really badly behaved are just extremely visible.

Yeah I’d agree with this, it’s become an embedded cultural problem.

Youth clubs had just become recruiting grounds for drug dealers and gangs.

I thought that too, if I was involved in county lines drug dealing I’d be delighted if someone opened a youth club near me, save me a lot of trouble.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969807/

Ok so this is interesting, it’s old (2014 and from Sweden) but found that 1% of the population is responsible for 63% of violent crimes. Thats extraordinary.

This 100% on 🎯.

The pain has spread from the North.

There are a number of problems, all interrelated and coming to a head at the moment.
Lack of funding for schools, health and police for a start.
Lack of investment in other support schemes like Sure Start centre and support for parents.
Shops closing and high rent stopping new ones opening.
Lack of shame and a drop in standards. Letting your kids roam the streets all night. Letting them just not go to school.

If you could see the behaviour in schools now, and I’m in a primary school, you would be shocked. Children squaring up to teachers and calling them cunts. Coming in with knives. Fighting in the middle of class.
If we don’t get on top of this behaviour it’ll only get worse. It’s a lack of respect and I think that comes from crappy parenting but also from the children seeing a general lack of respect for their surrounding. Graffiti and litter everywhere.