To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

[AbstractThought]

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

@LiquoriceAllsort2 You do not get extra benefits simply for having trouble walking. Loads of older people can not walk easily.

@Loulou599 having lived in Denmark for a couple of years but back in uk since 2022 - I will take the linear , flat and consistent nature thanks of Scandinavia- maybe some swedes and Dane's do get fed up of the linear non threatening feel of scandiland but I suspect that's the ones who can come here if they wish as scientist/bankers/high end engineers/architects etc - not just random mid level earners . (Who it isn't easy for them to come now anyway unless they want to work in care etc)

The only foreigners I can imagine thinking the UK is great are all at a level where they are doing very nicely thank you- kids at the lycee etc , not living in say Halifax with £14 an hour jobs and a 2 up two down rental. OR they have come from somewhere that was even shittier in terms of housing, health, job situation, etc.

Yes that was a really inane post. I was talking about access to the high street not benefits

You get what you vote for, ultimately.

There is no magic money tree

@coldcallerbaiter

Well there kinda is actually. It had to be shaken vigorously by the BofE after the trussonimics budget that almost bankrupt the entire U.K. pension industry. My Sil works at the BoE quite high up and she told me about the 24/7 shifts they all put in, providing the financial smoke and mirrors to ensure the entire thing didn’t go down the shitter.

My DF, 83, ex city finance/trader boy and about as brexy and Tory as you can get said this about Truss when I asked him about the market turmoil after her budget:

”Market reaction is just an aggregate of global opinion- if that opinion says the proposal (unfunded tax cuts for billionaires) is not realistic, they will act on that and remove their money and investment”

Thankfully everyone knows truss was an utter loon now, apart from a few highly deluded and uniformed individuals.

@BlackCountryWench2 are you in Dudley? (Just guessing by your handle) - out of curiosity why don't you move if you are going an hour just to get a pleasant shopping experience? Not an accusation, I'm just curious- I know I would. I lived in Wolverhampton for 3 years with an ex partner in early 90s and to be honest you would have to pay me to live in the area. Totally depressing.

I'm sure council planning comes in as a factor but let's be honest the fact that the average person now has £0 left to.spend after essentials hasn't helped.
Let's nor forget that 'essentials' are all paid to a very limited number of businesses.

We shouldn't be using Scandinavia as a yardstick. Scandinavian countries have lots of land, low populations, and more importantly still homogeneous cultures and societies until very, very recently. Their starting point is completely different from ours.

What part of London? I'm actually surprised as often people moan about London and wanting to leave

My comment is no more backward looking than yours saying that people should go back to shopping in shops. People don't want to do that nowadays (and whether or not disabled people get extra money isn't particularly relevant to accessibility - not everything comes down to cost) so why incentivise it? Isn't it more forward thinking to look for ways to use town centres that are not retail based? Community hubs, leisure facilities that are not centred around alcohol so generations can mix, converting shops to flats and houses - there are all sorts of things that could make town centres more appealing and less threatening, but we always have people wanting things to stay how they used to be and refusing to consider change.

This.

Happiness rating by country.

No 1. Finland 7.8
No 2. Denmark 7.6
No 5. Sweden 7.4
No 6. Norway 7.3
No 14. UK 6.8

I am wondering how more shops and a bit more disposable income would discourage women from screaming aggressively loud F words at their toddlers in our local primark. I'm sure they love their kids, but that's hardly the point.

People have generally changed. And it's spreading out. There is no shame or societal motivation to reverse this.
I wish we could fix the housing and living costs crisis, but I don't think the behavioural issues would change. It would be a pleasant start though.

It would be a good idea to think about how we repurpose town centre spaces that were designed to be retail dominated and increasingly aren't. I'm not against higher taxation of online retailers in order to equalise things, but we can't assume that will result in a return to physical shops again. People may very well choose to just pay more, particularly when they also have to factor in the costs of travel to shops. And online retail can also be second hand stuff, which people often choose specifically because they don't want to buy new in shops.

@WoshPank Bristol town centre has gone, in 15 years from being a thriving, upbeat, optimistic place into a pit of closed up units, rough sleepers, blatant drug abuse and filthy streets. The only shops are low rent or charity shop.

The empty buildings are gradually being turned into student accommodation.

The combination of vast amounts of students (especially at night), office workers no longer coming into the city due to home working, appalling public transport, lack of decent shops, expensive parking and a threatening atmosphere have reduced it to a no go area for most.

How would the refurb of a decrepit town centre diminish the crime/drugs presence? Isn't it more pertinent to tackle the latter first?

For a failing town that hasn't lost itself to very visible anti social issues, this might help, but probably not where I am. No business or company will touch it apart from Poundland, Primark, B&M's. You can't attract diverse crowds when the streets are heaving with drunks and littered doorways. The only businesses that have replace M&S and Debs here are casino's and nail shops.

We had the council plan a huge residential building with affordable apartments which fell through. I doubt anyone would have paid to live in them.

I do agree that behavioural standards have declined but there is always a reason for this. People don't just suddenly decide 'do you know what, I'm going to be an unpleasant prick' one day our of nowhere. I think one of the main drivers had been the division and isolation of general people now. In the past, people were part of a community and avoided anything considered 'shameful' because local people would remember it. Now though, people stay in a lot more and are less likelynto know and socialise with people in their area, so there's no point restraining your behaviour. They're virtually anonymous, there's no consequence. There's also no police presence anywhere so no sense of authority.

I'm not against higher taxation of online retailers in order to equalise things, but we can't assume that will result in a return to physical shops again

If those taxes were used to subsidise small retailers rents/rates then I think it would be a good step towards people using actual shops again, levelling the playing field.

Jeff bezo is currently swanning around in a half a billion pound (I kid you not) yacht.

I think that a lot of locals are angry because the authorities don't do anything about it. So the rest of us are expected to go elsewhere, stay in or simply avoid it.
Why do their interests outweigh ours? I can't understand why any authority would protect the rights of the anti social over everyone else. But if you look at places like ours, this is what's happening. It's theirs. It belongs to them. They rule.

I think it would do something, but am sceptical that we're going to see anything like a return to high street retail as it was. There's just been a shift in mindset. Unless and until we see the footfall levels, I think we need to assume alternative plans need to be made for some of the old retail based spaces in town centres.

And I can confidently say that people are not choosing to stay home! Everyone we talk to wishes they could hang out in town with a coffee like a few years ago. They don't like having to travel out for bits and bobs. They loved the place.
We never see elderly people there anymore, and there is a steady reduction of women and girls. The entire area is teeming with male gangs and drunks.
I don't think this is because they're shopping on Amazon.

As far as I know a lot of women don't feel comfortable there. Sticking an indie shop with scented candles and crafts won't alter that in a sea of raw piss and beer bottles.

Which town is this? I'm born and raised in Nottingham and the surrounds and know it well, some areas are worse than others but I really can't think of anywhere that's as bad as you're describing.

I've not been to Bristol since about 1995, but that sounds like exactly the sort of vacuum filling I was describing.

True, the antisocial behaviour is largely down to being in extreme poverty though. They don't choose to mill about with nothing to do. The antisocial behaviour is a consequence of it. I'm not saying people should be free to be a nuisance, but it is clearly closely tied to being deprived.
There are a few factors that have led to the death of the high street and it is a shame. I feel your pain OP, my hometown (where I no longer live as I moved to a city) is a shadow of what it once was. It makes me really sad for the local people because they haven't done anything to deserve this. Well, a lot of them voted for Brexit which probably didn't help but is by no means the only factor. Even in the city where I live now, although there is much much more of a 'buzz' in town, good atmosphere, plenty of shops etc, there are a LOT of troubled people roaming the streets. You have to feel sorry for them, they have been allowed to fall behind when they are clearly in need of support.