To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

[AbstractThought]

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

I see where you're coming from. However, because what we now realise were vulnerable people were abused so badly laws were passed to protect their rights. Mental capacity is one example of a loveable feast hindering getting proper support for the vulnerable because it costs money. It's all extremes these days and a multidisciplinary approach that is essentially a Hydra with no room for common sense or nuance. Plus lack if experienced staff in many areas.

The saddest thing is, we are (or were!) a first world country. Small yet successful, at least previously. There is no excuse for what has happened. We have derelict and troubled spaces all over, such as Blackpool, and all of these places could be rejuvenated - not with faceless shitty public buildings, but with innovation, investment, care.

Care is what's missing most of all. The greater powers in the UK do not seem to mind watching so many of our beautiful coastlines, waterways and old towns rotting like neglected teeth, visible to the world. It is shameful and embarrassing.
I get tired, too, of people slagging off the UK, we all want it to be good and need to be able to cling to some hope, but there's no escaping the fact that there is intentional neglect. We shouldn't be ok with this. We can't scrunch up our eyes and pretend it isn't there.

It could all be so much better. We were in a position to keep the entire country well maintained. Regressive policy and a divided press have turned us all against each other, and there's this palpable sense of smugness about it all going to hell. If it all goes south, blame the minority groups!

None of these towns had to suffer such widespread neglect. We didn't need a magic money tree to maintain our own landscape. It isn't helped by the insane property market which pits renting against ownership, when both ought to be respectable and manageable. It's like we have been gas lit for decades, led by a toxic tabloid megaphone into despising our neighbours and anyone who needs to access services.
If accessing decent services, having a great transport network, good roads and healthy housing is depleting us, then we are doing something wrong!

We have more people than ever going to prison. Those who think this is the answer do not understand how these people feel. There will always be a small minority who will need to end up in prison. But for the majority you need to structure society so they can operate within it, and feel they have some investment in society.
Instead in any discussions say on MN about changes that negatively impact those most disadvantaged such as a cashless society, or online information only, the reaction is often well you can't hold back progress. But if you take that attitude those people do not disappear. And they will find other ways of living instead.

If they’re so left wing why have they have a supposedly right wing leader for so long and increased the popularity of marine le pen?

It is very clear in run down areas that the bad people are untouchable. Efforts to make the public feel safe are almost patronising.

This is what pisses me off. They've torn up the social contract. Unlike the US, we're not allowed to arm ourselves, even pepper spray (I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing obviously, given what happens there) and we are generally far more constrained about what is considered appropriate self-defence. It could very easily be the generally law-abiding person that ends up on the wrong side of the law in a confrontation, particularly if the others are under 16.

But the whole point of constraining our right to arm and defend ourselves should be that the police will do it for us. And they do not. We're literally left completely defenseless, all you can do is keep your head down, avoid trouble, live in the best area you can afford and have decent insurance in place. And just hope you're not unlucky.

It's all so wrong though, surely our taxes should buy us some level of safety?

increased the popularity of marine le pen?

Immigration and lack of integration. They are fed up. Same all over Europe now really.

I doubt arguments about left or right wing are helping anymore, it just seems to make everything worse. It fixes nothing and drives us all apart.

A few things to bear on mind when using France as a model....

Huge taxes compared to UK. Is everyone willing to do that?

Big attachment to the land and respect for agriculture and farming even in the cities. How was that lost in the UK and can it be brought back?

The revolution...Well, its great that that happened but in some ways it was quite a fluke and an event triggered by actually a small group. It wasn't necessarily a national mindset...

I’m not advocating violence. The point is they got rid of the apex of inequality in their country. While ever we have a royal family, the class system will remain alive and well and those at the top of it will thrive, at the expense of people further down. Be nice if we could do it peacefully but that bunch with the riches never concede any of it willingly, hence France’s (and others) extreme measures.

The old dichotomy of left and right no longer applies to our world IMO. The new dichotomy is localism vs globalism

Garry Newlove

The next town along from mine (about 20 mins drive) is like you describe. People are drinking and shouting and swearing on the streets.

There is a pub in the town centre where homeless people and ex-prisoners have been housed, a house for alcoholics and several houses for young people who have a criminal record. I do appreciate all these people need to be housed and supported. The problem is they are concentrated in one area of the town.

I am also not looking down on any of these people as I have a family member who is in one of these categories and I visit them regularly as they need the support. What I have seen is absolutely shocking tbh. It is not a safe environment for them.

I have written to four different MPs and they have all passed the buck and I haven’t received a decent response from any of them. I am sure they would be shocked too but I doubt they would ever visit such an area to see it with their own eyes.

Be nice if we could do it peacefully.

Hairbear yes but how?

@Alarmingghhh when we came back from living in Copenhagen the way we described the uk in mid 2022 was it was like the Wild West relative to Copenhagen- we saw police everywhere there and the equivalent of PCSOs too- rarely saw homeless as they had big managed hostels , not just beds but washing facilities, cheap cafe, sitting round areas etc -

Denmark is an interesting case, they are actually quite authoritarian in many ways and yet very liberal in others. Same true in Netherlands.

A biggie though is expectations- I net very few women who didn't work at least 25 hours a week but childcare was very cheap- even with babies- so most families have 2 incomes coming in and far less people claiming as wages are high- tax is high too. The expectation is you contribute to society (unless you genuinely can't) - not that you sit around on entitled working out how few hours you can get away with to get maximum benefits ( and yes some people really are like this because our system makes it this way)

They also have a lot more social housing still of all types and no stigma on it- it's not quite as easy as it once was to get it especially in Copenhagen but it's still not as hard as here and lots of it is pretty nice too

The UK needs a reset in so many ways if it wants to stop being a bit of a craphole with a few areas that are relatively ok.

Many good points raised on this thread.

I think also people's sense of pride has been eroded.

I say this without judgement but many people do not dress nicely (not expensively mind, but nicely), they do not eat well or nourish their bodies, they do not use manners. The sense of community even in poor areas (washing the steps in council properties) is largely gone.

People do not take pride in their environment whether its there own home or their larger community.

You see people throw litter on the floor or spit on the ground or throw cigarettes and gum onto the floor. Not thinking/caring that this drags down the environment we live in, which impacts how we feel. And it's a vicious cycle.

Of course part of the reason for a loss of pride may be mental health, loneliness, addiction, poverty, but there's also an apathy.

My dad grew up poor but always had a sense of 'I put on my best clothes and make an effort for the day ahead.' It's not really about the clothes per say, it's the thought process that says 'I deserve to make an effort and take pride in myself/my community'.

@JamSandle it is about a sense of investment in our society. A feeling you belong.

I think the UK has a sub culture of 'I don't care' whether it be about education, working hard, dressing well.

There is that apathy now.

A lot of people don't take responsibility for what's there's - there home, family, health, their street. Someone else can do the hard work and upkeep but not me.

There was a thread a while ago on whether people should look after their parents. To me it's a no brainer - yes. Unless your parent has been truly awful to you. But they are your parents. Who else is going to do it? Same with kids. Who else is going to look after them? Pets. You've got to walk your own dog. A slide in people accepting responsibility.

We do need services and support but we also need to acknowledge what we need to be responsible for as individuals. Anyone can pick up litter from the road to make it look a bit nicer. Many say they shouldn't have to. I do understand that as we pay Council tax. But is it really that big a deal to do something to make the area a bit nicer even if for a moment?

I think a large part of the problem is education and the wilful avoidance of it by a good section of UK culture. We used to be proud of it, respect it. Now it's for 'idiots'. This isn't helping. Imagine the days before education for the non wealthy, they would have been in awe of what we now trample over.

There is no easy or polite way to put this, but I see children born into violence and extreme mental health issues here. Unless one of those kids develops a very singular and strong defence mechanism, it isn't going to thrive socially or in any workplace in the near future. If large swathes of people reject or cannot access decent education, this will create a terrible debt for the future. And not just academically; we are talking critical thinking, confidence, problem solving, social awareness, innovation and creativity.
This isn't criticising 'poor people', it is a huge judgement against our system, one which ignores the growing issues and only cares about monitoring their shopping habits and selling their data. Business and profit matter far more than human life here, now. Anything goes if it can make a profit. A person's well being is much further down our list of cultural priorities.
This will show, and it's already here. It's like we've created a monster yet don't want to claim ownership of it.

I get this too. But many people who didn't feel they belonged or liked the UK have still done their best and then moved somewhere they preferred.

A lot of my friends have emigrated to Aus. They didn't necessarily come from secure beginnings but worked and saved and then moved for a better lifestyle.

I know its not as simple as saying move. I'm personally considering leaving the UK myself and it isn't simple. But if you feel somewhere is shit, you either can help make it nice or take the step (as many do and always have) to try to find a more suitable place to be your home.

PLUS France has three distinct but unified Law Enforcements, dealing with their own particular responsibilities.
Loulou must despair

I agree. We have an anti-intellectual bent here. It doesn't help that uni is also horribly expensive and many are priced out of it.

Our council allocates these places to the worst areas, where a good percentage of tax payers don't have to witness it. Any spare spot of wasteland nr the town centre ends up turning into a warehouse, a stinking skip or a rehab complex. And with the best will in the world, it brings no end of trouble for those who live beside it.
Environment is a huge factor in mental health. Otherwise healthy people are suffering due to their exposure to constant misery, crime and decay.
Perhaps if our council really gave a damn it would put one in every area, so that we are all in it together, making it work.

They only clean or maintain streets in higher tax bands here. It's so very obvious if you look around.

@AbstractThought whilst I do think we have a class of folk that seem completely feral- you cannot say this is all down to working class tabloids- ( not all those are social minded either- the sun certainly isn't) the Express, Telegraph and Mail have raised the 'hating anyone who isn't in to garden centres, the Tory's , Royal Family and nice little village fetes' into an art form. That's not good either.

who now lives in a house with a moat

@AbstractThought I disagree though about education- I grew up in a midlands mining town and the miners were proud in many cases of their knowledge in literature, art, poetry etc - nowadays people would just take the piss- we celebrate the stupid- pay them vast sums to look stupid on TV etc