AIBU for traffic - are standalone 6th form colleges better resourced than state schools?

[Flyhigher]

Are there less subs problems than state schools?
Is behaviour better?
My year 11 about to go to a large catholic standalone 6th form.
Hoping it's much better than year 7-11 schools.
Can any teachers at 6th form advise? Hopefully more positive than year 7-11.

Depends on the area.

I Winchester and around there the 6th form colleges are amazing and well resourced etc and very very few schools have their own 6th form.

Where I am now most schools have their own 6th form and the perception is you really only go to the college for 6th form if you "drop out" or can't hack school. In reality it can be because of broader choice etc.

But these are 2 very contrasting areas but I think it would completely have to do with where you live.

You could go visit the 6th form. Have a look at what subjects they offer and the areas you'd be interested in etc.

I both the ones I taught there was no uniform, much more relaxed rules. Very different ethos to school. But I really liked it.

Subs - we didn't tend to use subs as they were post 16 and work was just left for them to do independently.

Behaviour was a bit better in any 6th form (school or separate) as they chose to be there although thats less the case now. On the flip side when given the extra freedom you did see some silly stuff. So ime school 6th forms were the ones still with a uniform policy and stricter about leaving the premises and had a bit of a tighter rein on things.

I dont teach in college or 6th form now though so perhaps someone with more recent experience can help.

I have visited. But what you can't find out is how many subs do they use?

Are there less subs in 6th form colleges? Higher teacher retention?

So no subs - just leave work with a non specialist teacher?

That's not great. So how often does that happen?

Thanks!!

My kids both went to a standalone 6th form college, it was more on the academic side and a really a feeder for university.

The teaching was a far higher standard than local school 6th forms, the teachers could concentrate on A levels.

My kids didn't experience any class disruption from bad behaviour. Think it very much depends on the college, but you needed high grades and they wanted students who wanted to be there.

I cant give you statistics across the sector.

I can say that our local, very good sixth form college, doesnt use subs for one off missed lessons. The students are set independent work. I dont know how they would deal with a long set of absence.

Behaviour is much better. Everyone is doing something they chose and met entry criteria for.

There are virtually no schools in my area with sixth forms ,there is a huge sixth form college and post 16 college next to each other however.

I don’t think there’s a standard - it’s going to be college/school specific. One of mine went to college and one stayed for sixth form - at their specific institutions neither had much in the way of subs although the sixth form had one teacher who hasn’t really very qualified (computer science so pretty standard). Size of each will impact too: college had a larger intake for example so the languages department was defn stronger at college just through sheer numbers. Depending on the subject choices, college may have a bigger pool of teachers for less standard/taught at GCSE courses (eg our sixth form had a small psychology dept as it wasn’t taught at gcse despite being the most popular a level pretty much everywhere.

DD is at a large standalone college.

She has not had one sub teacher since September.

I am not keen on the college tho because it feels too big and its a big step up from school where everyone knew her etc. The focus is very much on independent work etc.

With hindsight, I feel she would have been better going to a school sixth form (although she'd have had to travel to another Borough because we have no school 6th forms round here). However, then you run the risk of uni being a huge step up for them, so perhaps less spoonfeeding of material is better.

It's a difficult one.

For some a school sixth form will not be an option as they often only do A-levels and require a certain number of GCSEs at a certain grade.

Colleges usually have more variety of courses and levels available.

I was in an area where only separate colleges were available as a post 16 option. DDs in an area where it's mostly school sixth forms.

I generally think post 16 college is a far better option - DD's school still treated her like a child rather than an almost adult.

But it really does depend on the area.

Yes I'm not sure many places would use an actual teacher for sub lessons.

Its more like the work is passed on and th students work independently.

In a school they would prioritise their exam classes (so gcse and A level) for staffing so there may be some cover if off for a while.

Tbh this is now a problem in teaching everywhere as teaching is in crisis so really it's just Russian roulette as to which teacher will go on long term sick... Not that that's helpful but you can't base a school choice around that.

Sadly they're all underfunded, the government has made dreadful cuts to post-16.

You need to ask around, other recent parents with experience in your area will be useful here.

Behaviour is generally better due to their ages, but there can still be issues. I'd let my child make the decision though as they need to be fully invested in what they do.

I am guessing from answers already that you can’t generalise.

In our area (SLondon) the school sixth forms are more selective than the 6th form colleges and demand a high GCSE score for any A level subject to be studied.

And teaching standards and behaviour are good. As they are throughout the school, mostly.

I also know of a London 6th form college in a different area that is incredibly high achieving and competitive.

Oh, agree on no subs for one off sickness: this has been our college experience (& same I think at sixth form): work set and expected to get on with it.

main difference: sixth form was much more ‘guided’ - non attendance was more disciplined; huge amount of structured involvement in uni process (available at college but more driven by student); less flexibility in how down time was used. Oh and much shorter hours at school and more school type rules around clothes, behaviour: less trust I guess.

I think it depends what learning style suits your child. For us child 1 liked the clarity, clear expectations and small manageable size of sixth form. Thrived and felt safe. Child 2 found the flexibility of college helped them realise how self motivated they are! Took a huge step up in terms of personal responsibility and is absolutely taking a ‘uni type’ responsibility for their learning (going to tutors with stuff they don’t understand; getting extra feedback on their work). Loves being able to spend hours at the library studying (much nicer than school library) making the most of longer gaps between lessons. Has also thrived. Has absolutely been great prep for uni, IF your child is ready for that shift.

ds1 was very happy at his sixth form college. Never commented about any bad behaviour or disruptive lessons. Although it was over the Covid period so less in person teaching than would be normally the case. He came out with A*'s so nothing wrong with teaching. I think there was quite high drop-out in one of his A levels (Physics) but not so much the others. His secondary did not do A levels so he had to move for sixth form regardless and felt a sixth form college where everyone was starting afresh was better than a school where most would have been there for years.

Is there less teacher absence at 6th form colleges? So just odd sickness. And they get left to get on with it. With a teacher or just alone on a class?

No left to get on with it without a teacher or cover supervisor. Post 16 schools and colleges usually expect the students to just do the work that's set when teachers are away as it's in their best interest.

Very much doubt there's less teacher absence. You might be able to suss out locally for you if one or other has a high rate of teacher absence but there's no reason why a 6th form college would have less.

Often in my experience they'd take the work and go elsewhere if written on the board but usually it's emailed out now so they won't nec actually attend the class in person that's missed, although the room will be there if they choose to work there.

You need to check with your local options what the policy is.

I wouldn't base my 6th form choices on it.

At my sons college they would head to the study centre which is a library with lots of desk, a librarian and a learning support area and just get on with it. Or they can go home and get on with it if they dont have any other lessons that day.

They are supposed to do a lot of independent learning anyway. It like a halfway to to university feel, rather than a school feel.

More likely to be they leave work to do, and the class is just cancelled. Most will probably do the work in that period in the common room/study space but really, just do it before next lesson.

They are sixteen+; the point of a levels is more independence.

I'm sure you can't generalise, but would prefer a standalone for the wider variety of subjects and students.
Our local uses trainee teachers (who have fewer timetabled hours) to cover unscheduled absence, so they are familiar with the college but not necessarily a subject specialist.

I imagine it depends on area. We have two colleges and a handful of schools with their own. The school ones are still very much like being at school. Then one of the colleges needs high grades to get into, has high expectations, works with the uni for some lessons and facilities and I've never known a lesson to be subbed. The other college has very low grade expectations and is more like the kind of college older people do night school at, but on the other hand has excellent outcomes for those doing apprenticeships etc.

My dd has been at a sixth form college since September and she hasn't had any supply teachers but has had a lesson cancelled because the teacher was ill.

It makes sense to me that the teachers at a sixth form college are happier because they are only teaching students who want to be there as opposed to dealing with year nines bunking off or telling people to tuck their shirt in.

My dd loves the fact that nobody gets told off for walking on the wrong side of the corridor or for needing the toilet. And that's the side of teaching that's so completely draining.

On the other side of things they are expected to just get on with it. If they don't go to lessons or do assignments then that's their problem.

OP you need to look at your specific area - your first response from @Needanewjobsoon was a good example. For the most part schools in Hampshire don't have sixth forms at all because there is an excellent and established system of colleges. If you compare the results of either Peter Symonnds in Winchester, or Barton Peveril in Eastleigh with Winchester College (how much per year!?), they perform VERY well. If you want strong pastoral support Itchen in Southampton is excellent (in my experience).

But, if your local area is largely school sixth forms, the questions are different.

I lecture in HE, and think that generally, colleges offer a good transitional experience, but it depends on your child, their needs, and the local system.