AIBU for traffic - are standalone 6th form colleges better resourced than state schools?

[Flyhigher]

Are there less subs problems than state schools?
Is behaviour better?
My year 11 about to go to a large catholic standalone 6th form.
Hoping it's much better than year 7-11 schools.
Can any teachers at 6th form advise? Hopefully more positive than year 7-11.

I really liked the Hampshire system!

It is quite different in other areas I have taught though.

Mine says that A-level sixth form college is much better behaved than school. No subs, on the odd occasion a teacher isn't there they're given work to complete.

Although the behaviour at the local vocational college was awful even on the parents evening. And that was the children who wanted to be there and help out.

need we're Hampshire too. Not one of the posh bits though.

I find parents are generally positive. Even when things aren't great.

I guess it's a hard comparison as teachers are in one or the other.

DD's year 11 has been much better. Not perfect.
But MUCH better. 1000% better than year 9.

Behaviours and subs are

She's made her own decision.
Which she did at secondary too. And I don't think it was the right one then. What do they know?

Now she's also made this decision.

But after a state experience am not overly optimistic!

Agree with the comments about areas being very different. In south Bucks the sixth form colleges tend to be less academic and more practical/vocational subjects, and people tend to stay in school for the more traditional subjects. Most secondary schools here do sixth form.

i had the same change as you did between year 9 and year 11 (disaster to better!) but sixth form has been totally different. Smaller classes, excellent teaching, fewer behavioural issues. My DC is thriving and I’m much happier!

Echoing the previous comments about it depending on the student. Some kids I know were so ready for the extra freedom of sixth form college and really thrived, got great results – but they had friends who were a bit lost In a less structured environment

In my experience (Surrey, Hants) yes. The 6th form colleges are more like mini-universities with state of the art campuses, equipment and facilities. Going round our local one you would easily mistake it for a well-resourced US high school - the students even look the same. In contrast the secondary schools (Y7-11) are on their knees.

Will vary but on average school sixth forms receive slightly higher per pupil funding (£5800) vs standalone sixth form colleges (£5400)

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/annual-report-education-spending-england-2023#:~:text=In%20the%202023%E2%80%9324%20academic,5%2C400%20in%20sixth%2Dform%20colleges.

This down 23pc in real terms since 2010 for school sixth forms and 10pc down for sixth form colleges.
Thanks Tories!

FE colleges have higher per capital funding (£7100) as they teach courses that require more specialist equipment and tend to take more deprived students.

Your daughter picked her college, hopefully she picked her own courses too and when she's there hopefully she will be motivated to work hard and get to the next stage. If not, she'll get a bit of a shock and have to re do a year or take an access course. Let her make her own mistakes,it's the perfect time to learn from them whilst still being supported. You should advise and guide but shouldn't be too involved.

As for teacher absences, generally teaching at sixth form isn't as stressful as teaching at Secondary, most of the students want to be on the course and most want to progress. There are fewer behavioural and safeguarding issues as alot of children that are impacted won't get as far as sixth form and will likely be made to get a job sooner rather than later. With occasional teacher absences and if teachers are on trips students will be given work to get on with. For longer and known absences like MAT leave or recovering from Ops then supply will be in place. But it's a chance for your child to practice independent study which is a skill they will need in bucket loads at uni.

@SundayFundayz agreed, I don't think you can really compare sixth form colleges in areas with no school sixth forms, and areas where they are an alternative to school sixth forms. Here, we have no school sixth forms at all and unfortunately it does impact the funding and the ethos of secondary schools - they tend to not be great for music and sport for example as you just don't have enough players at a high enough level to have a school orchestra for example.

Conversely, the sixth form colleges are incredibly well funded, far better than the secondary schools. Most academic kids basically see secondary school as five years of purgatory that you have to endure before you get to the good stuff.

As others said, this'll vary a lot.

My older son went to a standalone college, and we were hoping similar as to what had been said - that behaviour would improve because people chose it and that it would be well resourced, but I think partially because he was in engineering which at that age not only attracts those genuinely interested, but those who think they 'should' like it or want to like it for the money they think they'll earn and also had those who thought it would be more hands-on practical than it actually is, there were quite a lot of behaviour issues in his class. I know other parents whose kids were in different departments at the college, and behaviour varied widely as did staff turn over, which didn't cause subs so much as more independent study and some staff covering others. Engineering where I am is really struggling to keep and retain teachers, as they've a lot of other options here.

I wish I had known as much about apprenticeships then as I do now (and known he wasn't actually getting supported with that as I'd been told - even with provider access legislation, some schools are doing little more than lip service). My older daughter has taken that route and it's been a significantly better experience.

She does work hard. But works much harder for good motivated teachers.

They already have time in the timetable for independent study. So losing time for teacher absence isn't great.

She's lost plenty of teacher time to Covid and subs already! 2 years Covid and about 1 year of subs!

Her college is large 2500 so I guess that's a lot of funding. But then they have a lot of buildings to maintain.

I know it will vary, by area, just wondering ballpark if Mums think resource seems better.

My DD had subs every year. For about 2-3 months and more. Especially in maths.

I guess her subjects are now social sciences.
So teacher shortages are less in her subjects.

Now it's an academy I think resource is much improved and behaviour better not least because they can expel students more easily and also have support to do so.

I guess it's hard to compare.

But wondering if 6th form college teachers think that their colleges are well resourced.

Or also facing a lot of teacher shortages?

Why don't you just say where you are?

My ds went to a sixth form college, here no schools have sixth forms so for A Levels it's the main option for kids wanting to pursue HE. Fantastic teaching generally, no supply teachers, if teachers were off they emailed students direct and gave guidance, broadly students were treated more like uni students than school pupils so it was excellent prep for HE.

I teach in a sixth form college. Staff are generally happier as it’s a nice environment to work in - however no less stressed as the burden of having heavier timetables and entirely exam classes is a lot! I see my students much more than when I taught in school and know them individually much better which is a big bonus. It’s easy to pick up on when they are struggling or not seeming themselves.

We don’t use supply except in dire circumstances. Staff absence isn’t huge unless at times when bugs are going round. If we’re off we email classes and they get registered by admin and work on their own. I’d say in school we used to miss way more sixth form lessons as they were always seems as the ones you could miss with the least hassle. I also get way more chance to plan properly for my lessons as in school sixth form was the one you’d leave until last as you could wing your way through a lesson without them being badly behaved. Classes in college are much bigger although this might have changed in schools more recently. Classes do nearly always have a specialist teacher, even if they’re not necessarily qualified in that particular area eg I don’t have a degree or even an A level in the subjects I teach but have taught very closely related subjects for 20 years. This is often the case for subjects like criminology, media, sociology etc. But we spend a lot of time working on the lesson planning and I enjoy being able to research and learn about my subject so I do consider myself very well placed to teach it.

Sounds very positive! Thank you.

It's the opposite where I am.

Dc had a few friends leave the 6th form attached to our mainstream state to attend the sixth form college in the closest city ( about 20 mins away)

They all regret it and so do their parents. Substandard teaching, kids running riot, failing the resits etc..the grass was certainly not greener.

I've been a teacher for 30 years in lots of schools and I've never known any school to use substitute teachers for 6th form classes. Neither subject teachers nor just a supervising teacher. The students are adults or nearly adults - they should be sensible enough to get on with their work if the teacher is absent. Behaviour is normally much, much better in the 6th form in schools. I can't speak for 6th form colleges though.

If a sixth form teacher is off for a lesson or two, there isn't much need to cover them. The students do not need supervising in the way that younger pupils do. Work is usually set for them to work through, and sensible classes sit and do that together, so they can help each other. If they get stuck, they can tell the teacher on their return that they'd like them to go over whatever they were stuck on. They may also be able to call on another teacher in the same department for help.

Longer absences, of course, can be more of an issue.

I used to work at a Sixth Form College and if a teacher was absent for a single lesson they set independent work and students sent it in their drop box so they could ensure the work was completed. If a member of staff was sick on a longer term a supply subject specialist teacher came to fill in. It might be different in other colleges though. You'd need to mask at college what their policy is for staff absence.

What area OP? Asking because it sounds v similar to the one DD is going to

Manchester.

I'm obviously completely out of touch. But I'm a bit shocked 6th formers then sit alone and get on with work. I guess there's no cover.
Maybe it is good practice for uni though.
Am guessing private schools that doesn't happen.