AIBU for traffic - are standalone 6th form colleges better resourced than state schools?

[Flyhigher]

Are there less subs problems than state schools?
Is behaviour better?
My year 11 about to go to a large catholic standalone 6th form.
Hoping it's much better than year 7-11 schools.
Can any teachers at 6th form advise? Hopefully more positive than year 7-11.

My daughter is in a very highly-regarded 6th form college. It's a stunning setting and they were able to select any combination of A levels they wanted. They don't use subs, the kids are left work to get on with, which is fine for the odd sick day. However, she starts her exams on 21 May - they're expected to keep going in to college until then to revise with their teachers, and one of her teachers has just informed them he's going on paternity leave next week!

I would also add that the reason the college is highly-regarded is that they get very good A level results, but I feel that comes at a cost. They are really hard on the kids - I know of kids who've had very serious health conditions who had to really fight to be allowed to redo a year. It's so hard to really appreciate this sort of thing just by visiting places.

DS stayed on at his school 6th form which was the wrong decision for him, he needed a change, felt the school pushed him to the A-levels they knew he’d be best at, ended up dropping out after a year, had a year at college doing a vocational course, then restarted A-levels of his choosing, on course for good grades, in final year, consistent teachers who are there to teach A-levels only, not across year groups. Overall college has been a better experience, he’s been able to get a part time job as not full time unlike school.

@Flyhigher but a supply or cover teacher just read the class the PowerPoint the teacher sets as cover or supervises as the class answer the set questions and copy out of a text book. Most supply and cover teachers aren't subject specialists in what they cover. I've covered plenty of lessons I haven't studied myself since GCSE or in the case of subjects I didn't pick for my options that I hadn't studied since year 9. In the case of things like Computer Science I have never been taught programming and my IT lessons were on how to use Word and Publisher so as supply teacher I couldn't help students, I was just there to supervise behaviour. By Sixth Form age the students shouldn't need to be babied like that, they are expected to behave and get on.

I went to a 6th form college - the best for results in the north of England so their approach of treating you like a uni student seems to work. I was 18 when I did my A-Level exams. Would have been slightly annoyed to have to be babysat by a random teacher in the classroom for a lesson rather than being able to just go home. You're not a kid any more at that age, and I think it's best not to be treated like one. One-off absences, we got an email cancelling the class, and longer term they got in a sub.

My son at his school sixth form rarely has subs, very occasionally a teacher will leave work or another teacher who also teaches the subject will cover. It often depends what subject you do as well though - if you're doing Latin for example and the teacher leaves half way through you're probably in a lot of trouble. If you're doing a science then it seems easier for them to find someone to cover or take over teaching.
Where we are if you get the grades you stay at school, if you don't you go to college.

I'm obviously completely out of touch. But I'm a bit shocked 6th formers then sit alone and get on with work. I guess there's no cover.
Maybe it is good practice for uni though.
Am guessing private schools that doesn't happen.

Yes it does in private schools too. It's not because they don't have enough teachers, it's because sixth formers shouldn't need babysitting to do their work, and because there is lots of work a sixth form class can get on with without a teacher in front of them. It has always been the norm for 6th form classes not to be covered, since I started teaching 30 years ago and also when I was at school myself. I'm baffled that you find it surprising, never mind shocking tbh!

Are you imagining a classroom of sixth formers all doing their work in class with no teacher?

If there's no teacher the students just do the work in their own time, they aren't expected to attend as per timetable!

At A Level, students are expected to do at least 15 hours of independent study per week, so 5 hours per subject in class and 5 hours out. They should be getting used to independent study, so it shouldn't make any difference if, for the odd class they have to sit in the library and do the work set by the teacher. Is the issue more that your DD wants to gobto sixth form but you want her to go to a private school? I don't know what private schools do but if they aren't teaching them how to learn independently then they aren't really doing them any favours when it comes to Uni.

When they are 18 and go to university, they will be expected to be self directed and get on with the work. Sixth formers are approaching adulthood, so what’s wrong with expecting them to be able to self direct and do what’s needed.

I think you’re being unrealistic if you consider that young adults should be treated in the way that their younger peers are.

I meant no cover and independent work for actual lessons.
We did independent study. But always had teachers for actual lessons. I guess I was lucky.
It was a long time ago!
I think I am probably more concerned after she had subs for every year in maths for 5 years. And in English at times too. They had a lot of subs in many subjects. But not as bad as maths. Sometimes for five months.

Anyway... it's all changed and I'd say the curriculum is taught much more professionally than previously. My teachers were always there but they didn't give great exam techniques necessarily. Didn't go over past papers like they do now. Or give as much feedback.

@Scampuss yes! So they just don't come into college at all if their teacher is ill? They can just stay home?
I am completely unprepared!

I guess yes. College is completely different to school 6th form.
I went to a school 6th form.
Much more freedom. She wants that definitely. And it's a good transition. I need to get my head round the difference in culture.
Yes it's more like uni. Need to embrace it.

Yes, they will have more than one lesson a day but if their teacher is not there they go to an IT room, the library, in my case we'd walk to the beach for an hour or pop in the pub and do the work at home or if they have no other lessons head home early.

So ... do teachers think 6th form standalone colleges work really well?

I taught in college years ago. I would say it depends on the level and subjects. Level 3/A Level normally OK although bigger glasses. Teachers are specialists by and large, important if you want psychology for eg taught by a psych graduate. The lower levels where they are resting gcse can sometimes have worse behaviour but not terrible in my experience just silliness because they are bring forced to sit maths/ English again. For any specialist subjects like art, engineering etc the facilities will be better because of vocational courses.

I’d be very careful if your child has any Sen, ND or MH. The local outstanding college in our area is known to be dire as regards provision for all, offloads, pushes back at taking EHCPs and abuses loopholes.

This was my experience too. My sixth form college was excellent and very academic - much higher entry requirements than my school sixth form and engagement was much better because students wanted to be there and do well. The teaching staff treated us like adults and we called them by their first name. I lived an hour away (as did most of my friends, but in different places) so it wasn't an "easy" option, which is probably why most people thrived. It only offered A levels when I was there but they now also have an IB programme too.

I knew a lot of people who had taken their GCSEs in the private system then moved to my college because it was so good. I attribute choosing this option aged 16 to my later academic and professional success because it opened my eyes to so many different possibilities, but as others have said it will really depend on the area and the other educational options. The people who went to college (rather than sixth form college) were the least academic/those who wanted to do vocational qualifications in my area. Most people stayed at school and 2 others went to my sixth form college.

This has always been the norm for college though. I went more than 25 years ago and it was like university. If your teacher is absent they email you the work to do in your own time. That could be at home, library, study area etc and at a time that's convenient for you. It's not like at school where the class have to still go to that classroom and sit there getting progressively more bored and badly behaved because no teacher arrives. It's simply cancelled and they have an extra session of independent study. The general ethos is around the assumption the students are adults choosing to learn those subjects, and with lives outside of it.

I guess I never had an absent teacher.
We always had cover form another subject teacher. They had much less timetabled hours though I think.

Just asked my year 12 as she wondered though form revising. At a very large 6th form 4000 students, but an outstanding reputation. Very little in the way of teacher absence, if theybare off, lesson cancelled often work set to do and if it's several days which has happened once one of the other teachers, same subject taught them . The all follow the curiculum to a set pattern so all 350 yr 12 biology students doing the same topics at the same time for example. Catch up lessons offered weekly for sciences if you want help/ revision you can attend any teachers which is helpful if you want / need a different perspective . It's large and I.did wonder if she would struggle but none of the local schools have 6th forms and transport to the other choice was dire. She is mich more independent because of it and loves being with classes who are equally motivated and using clean toilets not full of smokers!

So ... do teachers think 6th form standalone colleges work really well?

Well the quality of education you get at them will vary from college to college, as it will from school to. Some colleges offer subjects that some 6th forms tend not to, and vice versa. There's a more relaxed and informal vibe at college. Even though school 6th forms are different from the younger years, there's still probably more close monitoring of work and behaviour.

If I had a child who I thought needed a bit more direction and discipline with their work, I might encourage them to stay at school (but wouldn't stop them if they really wanted to go to college). My dd wanted to go to college for the freedom, but none of the local colleges offered the subject combination she wanted to do.

No idea about funding, but my own experience of a sixth form college is that the pastoral support was pretty much non existent. There wasn’t any history to your relationship with your personal tutor, and not really enough time to establish one. It felt very impersonal and without any interest in getting to know students or their needs or backgrounds. Because in less than two years they’d all be off again.

Also, OP, 6th form colleges may not be attached to a school, but they are still part of the state education system.

Yes. Used state to exclude private schools in the reply.

Kind of. Ours is actually a limited company. They are funded completely differently and don't have to follow the School Admissions Code.