To have avoided the "outstanding" school?

[Thaimoon]

We live in a large city. Pfb is 4, off to school in September.

I admit to being anxious and to overthinking most big decisions I make so throwing this out here for some perspective and the benefit of other's experience.

Just received confirmation that the school we picked as our first choice is the one our child has a place at, all good. On looking round, it seemed a nice school with a good friendly feel to it, it's very diverse and extremely local to us. So, I was happy with this.

Then, preschool tells me that all dc's little friends are off to the outstanding rated primary down the road from us (both schools in walking distance from our home).

We did look around this school too. It has had an outstanding ofsted twice in a row. It is a faith school, and we do not practice any religion in our family. Not necessarily an issue for many, I get this, but I thought it might be a bit confusing for dc.

However, the main thing that put me off was the treatment of a child with learning needs that I witnessed whilst being shown around (by a senior member of staff) which to me was distressing and disturbing to watch.

Its got great academic results and clearly is doing something right. But for me the behaviour I witnessed was a deal breaker.

Just having a last minute wobble about the fact that most of dc preschool parents have picked an outstanding school, and that they won't be with their friends. AIBU to pick a lower rated school based on a gut feeling from one incident I witnessed?

Your choice but id have probably picked the outstanding school like most of the other parents. Anyway the decision is made now so I wouldn’t over think it, you went with your gut

Go to the one that feels right for you. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. You get a feel for a place.
I'm a teacher. Worked in a really tough school but when i went for interview it was clear to me that they really cared about pupils and staff. Ofsted were more interested in robots and results though and it's now an academy which is more like a production line of exam results. I no longer work there. I loved the original school.

Having a friend with a SEN child this is quite normal and it may well be the child is overwhelmed and spends time in the classroom and then when he’s overwhelmed (or disruptive) he goes and has some quite time. You can’t tell from one brief interaction

I think a parent's gut instinct about a school is a very important factor for this decision. My MIL (retired teacher) always said that how you feel in a school is critical and how your child feels in that environment and I have found that to be true IME.

I wouldn't worry about his friends if both schools are local at this age.

But peer pressure on parents from other parents, in-laws etc is tough to resist.

I also agree that the one incident you saw may not give you a true picture. But if you're looking for evidence against the preferred alternative then it will loom larger.

It is natural to take this very seriously, it is a big responsibility; but also you sound very lucky to have any choice at all and both choices sound great. There will be pros and cons to both choices so you could just decide it's a win-win.

All the best to you, I empathize!

Ofsted has been shown to be completely unfit for purpose so I would consider their ratings with a pinch of salt anyway.

I retract my comment upthread. Ofsted have now said in the last couple of days that despite calls from the teaching community that they will not do away with ‘reductive, misleading and dangerous labels’ (the words of the sister of the headteacher who committed suicide after her Ofsted inspection). Numptys.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-no-plans-to-change-single-phrase-ofsted-judgments/

I picked DS's school based on how sweet one of the older kids was with him (he was v bored and acting out and the kid was amazing with him). I later discovered that this kid was the product of the school setup before the head teacher changed, but my instinct was correct as far as it went, the school had been a lovely nurturing place previously. I avoided the outstanding one because when we went to visit, the children were scared to speak when they were asked to say hello to us visiting parents. They were very, very quiet. There was also a little boy who we were unknowingly blocking from getting back into his classroom and he was frightened to say 'excuse me', getting more and more anxious because he needed to get back in. It's massively oversubscribed... And funnily enough the head from DS's school moved there when their head left. I've also worked in LD respite, liaising with schools, and that would have set my alarm bells clanging for a week, OP.

My kids went to an outstanding primary school and lots of kids with extra needs moved. It was ok if you were a robot but any challenging behaviour was punished not understood. Sounds like you trusted your instincts x

Anecdotally, a local high school has been outstanding for years. However, a friend who worked there had to leave because of bullying from senior staff, and she wasn’t the only one. She felt the focus was too heavy on kids to achieve top grades at the expense of their well-being, anti-bullying etc. Also that not enough was done to support kids who were struggling, so many SEN kids ended up moving. For some parents, getting the top grades will be their number one priority. For me, I take the approach that exams are there to get you to the next level. If my kids can get decent grades, I’m not bothered about A*s. I’d much rather they feel happy in school, enjoy learning and develop great social skills. I want the staff to be happy, not overwhelmed with pressure, which means they can give their best to the kids.

I attended an outstanding secondary school. By the time i left it was in special measures. It was in the news for the culture of sexual harassment and bullying, and declining attainment. An Ofsted rating isn't worth the paper it's written on in my opinion.

You did the right thing.

I'm a semi-retired teacher. Sometimes schools only get an 'outstanding' because they're selective in their intake and therefore get good results.

If they're not treat children with learning needs with respect, they're not all they're cracked up to be. Good call, OP.

We didn't send our eldest to the outstanding school. We actually chose the other one, which was requiring improvement at the time. It was absolutely the right choice. The outstanding school ended up having all sorts of behavioural issues that became well known in the years after.

Our local secondary (which eldest is starting at next year, as no other schools nearby, except the other which is rated inadequate!) was outstanding for many years. It's now requiring improvement and there are all sorts of complaints. A great ofsted doesn't mean a school is actually a good school and it can change very quickly. You have to go with your gut and choose what feels right.

I used to teach at an "Outstanding" primary school. Never in hell would I consider sending my children there. It was oppressive, run like a dictatorship, children with SEN treated like pariahs, and full of nepotism. SAT results were "adjusted". High staff turnover except those "in" with the headteacher. All creativity and individual thinking stamped out in favour of blind obedience.

The headteacher and SLT knew exactly how to make paperwork look perfect. Teachers who spoke up or left were slandered.

Do not trust Ofsted. Trust your gut.

Surely you weren’t eligible for a place at the faith school anyway, so there’s no actual dilemma? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Always best to go with the 'gut' feeling.

Just to counter a bit of the negativity, though most of us (me included) have posted about why we have disapproved of Outstanding schools in our area, there are of course excellent schools that impress Ofsted too. My DC's Secondary school has been Outstanding ever since I can remember and I think it genuinely is.
I think the key thing to remember is that Ofsted reports can be a useful part of your assessment of a school, but only a part, and that you do actually need to read them! I was shocked when I realised how many parents I know just look at the overall rating but don't read the body of the report which is actually where you are far more likely to find useful information.
And of course everything needs context. If there's something that seems worrying you need to look at why. For example the primary my DC's went to had a particularly low average for SATs one year, but if you knew the school you'd know that that year group had more pupils with additional needs than usual and as it is a small school that had a big impact on the average. Talking to the parents in that cohort they were all really proud of how well their children had done actually.
Look carefully at everything you can, ask questions and trust your gut if things don't feel right would be my advice I think.

It's funny reading this thread. It's the polar opposite to so many threads where posters are delighted their children have been allocated an 'outstanding' school.

This.

IME Outstanding = outstanding at paperwork.

I'm sure you have made the right choice OP.

Also I would advise being a champion of you dc's school if you can. Over the years I have been a parent Governor and a PTA helper in 4 schools in total.

Passionate and positive parents can do a lot to support a school. It's good for staff morale and dc like to see a parent on the hoopla stall or doing the bar at a show.

At dd's school they ask professional parents to come in to do pretend 'interviews' with year 10s. My dd had a solicitor do hers and found it a very good experience.

You had your reasons, so stick with them. Can you give more details on what you witnessed?

Thank you, good advice, I will definitely consider this

Exactly the same situation here OP, but my kid is now in juniors so I’ve watched things play out for a few years.

All the (let’s face it) snobs who followed the Ofsted and sent their kids to the exclusive (catchment, behavioural, general ethos) C of E school are regretting it as our lovely, inclusive (diverse pupils in every way, and we take the SEN kids the C of E have kicked out) school is now outstanding and theirs is absolutely not. Their finances are shocking and they have no staff, plus more that I won’t say.

DS also knew no-one when he started as he went to a nursery far away, but wasn’t an issue.

Stick to your guns, it was the faith element and the intolerance (attitude to SEN) which swung in for us too and it’s worked out beautifully so far.

Ofsted ratings are a bit of a dark art.

Some schools absolutely invest in knowing how to tick the boxes, dot the i's and cross the t's. There are trends and fads ofsted are focussing on each cycle and consultants who can help schools prepare accordingly.

This stuff does not mean they will do the best for your kid. Its more about how the school is run, and evidencing the processes etc in a very clearly documented, auditable way.

My kids school is "good".

Its very high attaining, kids are happy and well behaved. The things to improve in the ofsted report were woolly things about the content of lesson vs learning objectives. Whatever it is it doesn't seem to stop the kids doing well academically, and they are happy, so who cares.

We had exactly the same situation as this and my child is now in year 2 and we are thrilled we went for the 'not' (Ofsted) outstanding school. It's friendly and supportive, and considers all elements of the children's personalities. Our youngest starts school in September and we're excited for them to join the same school (although once again all of the nursery friends will go to the 'outstanding' Faith school).

Repeating others go with your instinct. DS who is now 17 went to an outstanding infants school, it was very sharp elbowed. Plus, another school in our area was outstanding 5 years ago but two years ago moved to ‘requiring improvement’ guess what? Nobody moved their child as it is an affluent area and where were they meant to move them to!