To consider a bigger rental flat when DH is unemployed?

[leftorrightnow]

This is a tricky situation and lots of emotions involved, so please be gentle!

• We live in a two bed flat with two kids, 7 and 9 years old, they share a room, this room is also DH's home office
• The flat is rental, we love the area and it's near my job and the kids' school which is a great school where we'd like them to stay and they are thriving there
• The flat, however, has glass doors into the living room from the kids' room, so after they've gone to bed and we have closed those doors, we have to be very quiet in the living room and can't speak in more than hushed tones, can't watch a film etc..
• DD, who is 9, is begging for her own room consistently and is also introvert and needs her space
• We had been planning to get a mortgage this after the summer last year but in September, DH lost his job due to a crisis in his industry, which is still ongoing, with high levels of unemployment globally. Currently the outlook for his reemployment is uncertain (he is doing all he can, don't want to overload the post with details on this..)
• My job situation is stable and my job is well-paid enough that we can with no problems stay in this flat, on my income and his unemployment support, which he is guaranteed for two years (17 months more from now). We can even still have the occasional meal out and are going on holiday this year, and have not touched our savings yet.

• I am considering looking for another rental in our area with one more room and a rent increase of approx. GBP 200-300 per month. On our current income we can manage that, just would have to cut back a bit on 'fun' spending like new clothes and meals out and holidays, but not to the extent of cutting it all, just being a bit more careful.

• But is this a bad move, given that A) getting a mortgage would be better in the long run, and we would be able to get that (a bit further out though) once DH is hopefully employed again - but when will this be we don't know B) increasing expenses when one person is unemployed seems irresponsible, isn't it C) the loss of deposit (it always happens, right??) would then be times two, and the other costs associated with moving are also to be considered.

• BUT: I feel so bad not being able to provide the kids each their room, I'm being driven mad by the lack of privacy for DH and I, and every time someone comes around I feel a bit embarrassed about the small space and the kids sharing a room and with DH's computer in there too (I know this last pint is so superficial, but had to mention it).

What would you all do?

Block the doors, even if it's just with some thick kingspan in front of them. Light enough that it wouldn't need to much permanent fixings. Curtain over glass so it looks nice from other side. Or even a wardrobe - good sound insulation.

Then try and give them each their own side with a big IKEA kallax type unit down the middle. Good storage and a useful divider so they have a bit of private space.

Computer into your room so it means they gain some space and privacy even if not a separate room.

I get a sense that your DH gets very little sympathy on here because he is 1. not learning the language in the country he is living in and planning to live in long term because he thinks it is not essential for either life or employment and 2. hasn't managed to secure at least a minimal and menial job to help you out. 7 months is plenty of time to get ahead with the language and get a couple of night shifts as a cleaner/delivery driver where you are unlikely to need language. I appreciate it is neither here nor there when it comes to your housing question but this is a bit of an elephant in the room nonetheless.

Of course but in the meantime he just needs to get whatever job he can get

Assume your rent would be 300 a month more. Put that cash into savings for the next few months and see if the lack of disposable cash does make a big impact to your daily life. So less treats for the kids, less fun money. Then reevaluate if +300 a month is better than extra space.

It seems your husbands ‘needs’ are dictating somewhat. He needs a desk. He needs a high powered PC. He needs dual monitors. He needs the best internet.

He doesn’t need all this when he isn’t bringing in any money to the pot from them. They are wants and conveniences to him; he could make do with a laptop, he just doesn’t want to.

I would try switching the bedrooms before any thing else.

The thing is you don’t know DH’s work or industry at all, so can’t rally speak about what he needs. His industry is highly gig based and he could have a job next moth and would then immediately need the workstation. To dismantle his options for bringing in cash again quickly wouldn’t be smart. Even that aside - I take your point and the general MN antagonists approach to husbands, but I do love my husbands, he is a good and loving dad, he moved to a country he doesn’t know and doesn’t speak the language of to be near MY family, damaging his job prospects In the process, he is currently doing all cleaning and cooking and pick ups and drop offs and child appointments AND play dates, leaving me time to focus on my career. Why would I take away the one thing that makes him feel hopeful, like he can learn something and improve his skills so he may work again soon, just so the kids can have a bit more space? Being hit by unemployment doesn’t make you a second rate member of the family who should just go sleep in the dog’s basket in the corner. Being unemployed is really really tough, I’ve tried it myself, and I see how he struggles and how hard he tries. Yes, he could give up on his industry and go retrain as a plumber tomorrow, but thy would mean years of zero income as he retrains, so unless he has exhausted all options in his industry and waited for it to pick up after the crisis it is currently in, that doesn’t even seem like a smart move, but rather panic.

I do agree that he should learn the language though and I’m pushing him on this point.

This is good advice.

I would add to OPs list that moving twice in a short period is not in the kids best interests.

But if his earnings are to be taken into account for a mortgage OP will not be buying a home for a long time due to needing proof of stable, regular earnings.

OP I wouldn't be making plans based on any income he will ever bring in.

2. hasn't managed to secure at least a minimal and menial job to help you out. 7 months is plenty of time to get ahead with the language and get a couple of night shifts as a cleaner/delivery driver where you are unlikely to need language

In a country where you have two years income support (especially if it's somewhere like Denmark where that support is tied to your past earnings and not a pathetic 80 quid a week or whatever) getting a menial job is not the best way forward.

Tbf retraining as a plumber guarantees employability at the end of it. Plus prospects to set up a business with regular income.

With gig work he may be 3 years down the line in the same position.

But you already know that. You've thought the same and probably said it to him but feel like you want to fight his corner. I get that. You love him and don't want people seeing the worst. But people are just saying what you've already thought.

Yes, I have thought that, but his industry earns a lot more than a plumber, and his income support, (yes we are in Denmark, you guessed correctly!) is GBP 1,615 a month (after tax) approx, for another one and a half year, which is more than you make while retraining as a plumber/builder etc...so I will give him until after the summer and if his industry has still not picked up then, I will apply the screws..however, if I was unemployed (as indeed I have been, and for an entire year, while he supported us all and at that time I had no unemployment support) I also would not have appreciated being told to go and retrain as a plumber after having completed a university masters degree and having previously worked in a high profile and well paid job...I waited a year and so did he and then I got a job which I am in now which I love and which pays well!

sorry I realise this is very context specific, which is why I did not include it at first, the unemployment system here is very different to the UK, you pay into a private unemployment insurance while you are working and if you have done that for a year and then become unemployed you get substantial support for two years. You also get offered free courses and internships as part of the deal, which is what he is also doing. People based in the UK are making entirely reasonable suggestions based on the situation there, which is only logic, given MN is a UK based forum!

I wouldn't move while dh's income is so uncertain.

I would look at possibly swooping rooms or soundproofing the doors.

Soundproofing is not necessarily very expensive - lined curtains would do it nicely.

How long will your savings last when your DH’s unemployment support runs out? Would you be able to manage on just your income in the long term? I think it would be a good idea for your DH to have some kind of plan if he can’t find work in his industry in a year.

Yes I agree with that. He needs to work on that. He is in denial now. His industry ahs bene hit very hard, it is not just him, so many people are in similar situations. It is not easy, having to face potentially giving up your industry and identity after so many years due to changes and a crisis. So I have given him time but soon he has to face the situation. To be fair, I also read industry news and so many people have been saying for months it would pick up and it hasn't so it is hard to make accurate assessments.

I sympathise massively, my husband's industry was basically decimated by Covid.

We've always got our full deposit back, but I don't know what the situation is in Denmark.

From what you've said, I wouldn't change much at all. I'd leave the glass doors, because the room opening out into the living room during the day is really valuable, and you are awake for longer than you're asleep. I'd probably try some big curtains behind the glass doors - we've got some heavy thermal curtains that block a decent amount of noise - and I'd move DH's set up into your room, so the children feel their room is a bit more "theirs".

Otherwise I'd leave it; at least for now.

Has he not started learning the language at all? I think even with a concerted effort, he's unlikely to develop enough fluency for a job requirement by the time his employment support runs out.

What is the industry sector (roughly)?

Its fine using his insurance to be picky and regroup for a month or two but he is now seven months in and still not taking the language issues seriously. If there is a global dip in his industry and he is also disadvantaged by language he really has to knuckle down with the language and look for backup options career wise. What are the options which allow some transfer of skills? Five years in a country without learning the language will not look great on a CV - that needs to be a priority.

I would not take on the extra rent and cost of moving whilst not having some endpoint to his unemployment. I would look at bunk beds for the DC who are fine sharing at that age plus swapping bedrooms and/or moving his workstation to your bedroom. Using your future mortgage deposit to move seems a risky use of the money.

What is your timebox for finding another job in his preferred industry? The longer he is unemployed the bigger gap he has on the CV - a "lower status" job may not be what he wants permanently but it could be an opportunity to build fluency in the local language whilst seeking other work.

Thank you lol…sometimes I feel very angry at him myself to be honest! But then I remember the context. What are my options anyways? Even IF I didn’t love him, and was willing to divorce him, I’d be worse off without him!
mid not have what he contributes in terms of unemployment support right now, would have to pick up all what he currently does at home and would seriously struggle to keep my job as it isn’t very flexible, so even when he works I was relying on him for the majority of drop off and pick ups and certainly all extracurriculars, as he usually works from home so has flexibility.

That being said I do think he needs a bit of a reality check, but I do know first hand the stress of being unemployed as you already feel totally crap about yourself and don’t need your partner blaming and pushing you on top of it…and I’m very grateful he didn’t do that to me back when I was unemployed!

but yes it’s true we likely need to stay put

but the idea of giving the kids the other room may not be bad...the thing is though that it is smaller than the current room, so not sure they'd be happier.

Give them the smaller room, away from the reception room. Put your DJ's desk and computer up in your new, larger, glass doored, room. Get decent black out curtains over the glass doors.

Then he is out of their room, they can play a little more independently now that they're older, they may gain a bit of space, and you still have a dark room to sleep in but you will be able to relax properly in the evenings, which is vital.

Play up the novelty factor for the children (a change is as good as a new flat). Maybe get new beds such as cabin beds to delineate personal space and maximise floor room.

Appreciate the input…but retraining really isn’t that easy, is it? He is in the film industry, post production….so the whole thing was started by the Hollywood strike and things have still not picked up on the post production side.

OP we can't comment on whether getting a mortgage is sensible if we know nothing about Denmark! Even in the UK social housing tenants have little need for one. Their rent is usually lower than market rate, secure lifetime tenancy and housing benefit pays a lot of the rent.

What I can comment on though is the instability of your DH industry. Also, I know a couple of people in the industry and AI, post-production jobs being massively outsourced is a big deal. Your DH living in an expensive country is at a massive disadvantage.

It would be unwise to move before he sorted his career.

Don't you qualify for any bigger social housing or government help? I thought Denmark was some sort of Scandinavian utopia.

It would be OK if you could be the main earner but is appears not - you are relying on his unemployment benefit still? It's not a nice extra.

I wouldn’t think you were mad if you got a bigger rental. You can move in a lot quicker than buying and it sounds like the lifestyle a new rental would give you would be beneficial to your whole family.

I suppose it depends how desperate you are with regards to your current rental and how negatively that is impacting your day to day life.

And none of his skills are transferable? Not even team working, collaboration etc into other areas of media and design? What is the plan for adjusting skills to accommodate job losses in this sector due to automation and AI?

You still need a timebox, a plan and particular a method to accelerate language learning, even if that isn't what he wants to do.

Ok - well the industry specific info is actually quite useful. It will pick up but it's like that old adage, the USA has a sniffle, the rest of the world gets a cold.

I'd stay put and rejig his desk. I'd work on the basis that if his ship comes in and it looks like a decent gig then you reconsider moving/mortgaging. You could have more space but less cash to do nice things together as a family and these years fly by. As a period of downtime he is spending a lot of time with his family and I assume when he is working, it's all systems go?

Lastly, free language tuition and presumably a Danish speaking family sounds like a golden opportunity to immerse himself. That would in time open up more local opportunities too. I can't say whether decent Danish would make Swedish or dutch easier to pick up too. Hard enough to learn a new language as an adult. So the whole family could go cold turkey on English language TV? Have you got subtitles in danish on as a matter of course? Do you speak danish at home? I know that looking for a new job is a full time job but I think it's worth taking some time out to avail of the free tuition. Frankly makes far more sense than retraining as a plumber 😂

Plus if his desk is in your bedroom you can watch a film in bed and not disrupt the kids.
Otherwise I'd move into the kids room and put up black out blinds for you.