To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

Re the state pension :

DH took early retirement deal (manual job) at 59, therefore stopped paying NI contributions. He had worked since the age of 16 with no breaks.

He was told he didn’t have enough contributions to qualify for the full state pension. He had worked full time for 43 years. He has had to pay the remaining 7 years in order to get the full state pension, approx £900 per year in missing NI contributions.

My point is that the 35 years qualifier for the full pension is misleading! And if you come out of work early you won’t get the full state pension at 66/67 unless you make up that National Insurance shortfall.

Did you put your age on your CV ?

From the staff at my school, it’s those in their 30s that seem to take the most time off work, but they are trying to teach full time, either as the sole earner, or with a partner also working full time, paying an absolute fortune in both childcare and mortgage payments each month, with no family to rely on (as their parents are in their 50s, also working full time). Nursery are continually sending kids home with coughs/bugs and they have to look after them. I don’t think they are lazy, they are just desperate.

Interestingly , I can’t comment on the absence levels of teachers over 57 as we don’t have any-they have all left or taken early retirement whilst they were on the old pension scheme. Who knows what the staffing will look like when a huge bulk of them are over this age? Will teachers from 58-67 have exemplary sickness levels as they are tough old boots, or will they just be exhausted and with years still to go?!

What I hate are the smug posts implying that if only everyone lived like this and copy the poster, they’d never get ill (I think the pp mentioned she never gets colds) without thinking that life is more complex
I don't think anyone says that following a healthy lifestyle systematically mean you won't ever get ill or injured. You'd have to be quite uneducated to believe this.

However, if you are to believe the majority of posters, the inability to work is never down to unhealthy lifestyles but bad luck, even though all the evidence is here to show that poor lifestyle choice is the main issue and a continuous serious concern. The NHS is overwhelmed trying to treat people who need regular and ongoing care that is the result of poor lifestyle.

I think statistics now show that almost half of people are overweight or obese, and there are more overweight people than people within the recommended weight margins. This is very scary.

This is what we need to talk about, not the rarer cases who are sadly unlucky indeed and struggle accessing NHS care.

Spot on @susiedaisy1912

poor lifestyle choice is the main issue
No, the #1 risk factor for work limiting health condition is age, not lifestyle. Most people who are obese are obese due to a mobility limiting disability that they have acquired. The Tories reverse this causation and have convinced people that for the majority of people, poor choices leading to obesity causes the mobility limiting disability. This isn’t true, for the majority the dusability that limits mobility comes first, followed by obesity due to inability to be mobile.

They’ve done the same switcheroo with their claims that work makes you healthy when all the evidence shows is that being healthy makes you more likely to be in work. (Duh).

I am a similar age to your parents and do an admin job. You talk about the physical work being difficult at our age but seem to think you could continue doing admin work until late 60s.

You have no idea. And tbh I didn't until I started living it. It's not just your body that gets knackered, your brain does too.

I struggle with the work I have been doing for nearly 20 years. My mind struggles with new processes, and even the ones I used to be able to do in my sleep.

It's a nightmare.

Maybe the real problems are that as a nation we are the sickest in Europe because of obesity and other lifestyle factors, many from choice.

To write people off as being unable to work in their 60s is actually deplorable.
One of my parents - my father- was forced to retire at 65 as that was how it was then and he hated it. He wanted to carry on.

I appreciate some people have work that is manual, but equally they should also try to plan ahead and find other work as they get older.

Expecting other people to pay for your lack of work is just wrong unless you are very very ill and cannot do any work.

This is so depressing.

I am post state retirement age and still working part time, for myself in a small business.

I can't speak for the private sector because I haven't worked in it for many years, but poor management and bullying is endemic in the public sector, and contributes hugely to LTS. I'm in a team of 16, and at any given time, there will be at least 2 off on LTS, usually due to stress at work and nobody gives a shit. Turnover is crazy too.

I think it's true that even in professional jobs the older you are the less sharp technically you are. This is in part why you move into management. I am not doing something as difficult technically as I used to, but I have the strategy to get the best out of my team. If I ever have to do intense technical work now it feels hideous. I can, but I am just not as swift as I was decades earlier. I find myself tired out by it.

You have no idea. And tbh I didn't until I started living it. It's not just your body that gets knackered, your brain does too.

Brains deteriorate if they aren't used and stimulated.

And again, the right diet and exercise keeps brains healthy.

Many of the oldest people (who are working in their 70s and 80s) are academics and senior doctors who are using their brains daily.

Yes, I agree, it's not the whole picture but it certainly doesn't help. I have a colleague (teacher), in their early 60s who is really too ill to work a full timetable, but they're not ill enough to take ill health retirement. They came into teaching in their 50's, so their retirement age is 66. Navigating this as a school is a nightmare. Reducing their timetable but paying them the same wage just increases work for others, who don't get any extra pay. The teacher has been offered a proper switch to part-time, with the associated drop in pay, but they have declined as they can't afford it. If they'd started teaching pre 2007, they'd be retired at 60, so this scenario is quite a new one for schools to deal with. There doesn't seem to be an adequate solution because that requires money and there is none. This will happen more and more, we haven't lived in a world with 66 year old teachers, nurses etc, and ime it is not being planned for at all.

where does the money come from to pay for the benefits? Benefits are supposed to be a safety net for the most vulnerable, not a lifestyle choice.

imust use it or lose it is very true. I'm also in an office. So many young colleagues drive in, sit at their desks during lunch and do no exercise. It makes my arteries twitch just thinking about it.

We are dead healthy in my family but heart attacks still get us. I'm trying to delay mine and be in good shape for the inevitable recovery.

@Themaghag mate, I know all about that. My very healthy mum died suddenly of cancer at 46 leaving us in poverty and chaos. I know.

What I am trying to counter here is posters saying things are inevitably physically bad in your 40s and 50s. I know a lot of men and women at that age in the best shape of their lives. Ageing and some of the issues that come with it is inevitable, ageing badly doesn't have to be.

I work in a clinic where there is a good chunk of people who attend with chronic ill health who’s problems would largely be solved if the retirement age was as it was.

Life expectancy has only increased substantially ie beyond 80, in the last 30-40 years.

in some parts of the country the average age of a health life expectancy is 54. After that it’s ill health until death. The government is trying to have no or very limited public services - those that helped keep the nation healthy, is passively encouraging low pay and shoddy housing, Factors we have know for years adversely affect health. Now they are shouting the population is too sick. It’s a case of chicken coming home to roost from the policies of the last 14 years on the back of huge inequality and an aging population.

Yep. Covid is responsible in the increase for under 35s imo.

I have had an easy life, good food, little stress etc but am absolutely knackered at 53, the difference from 45 to 55 seems to me to be night and day. Most of my friends feel the same. The thought of a late night feels me with dread. We are all busy working and bringing up teenagers, you just do run out of energy ime. There is the slight caveat that I think the pandemic knocked the stuffing out of a lot of us and many are dealing with quite serious mental health issues in their teens or with ageing parents.

I won't get any pensions until I am 67 so am going to have to keep going as long as I can and save furiously to make up the time between my stopping work and drawing on pensions. The pensions I do have aren't generous enough for me to take them early and survive but they will top up the state pension.

So it seems entirely credible that there people are on long term sick. I may or may not be ill, but I am fairly sure I won't be working full time at 66. Btw I won't be entitled to benefits as have some savings, which is absolutely as it should be.

@vivainsomnia You sound like my cunt of an ex boss who stated loudly and regularly that "only weak people get sick". He was very fit, went to the gym, didn't smoke, drink or eat unhealthy foods. He was dead at 59 after having a quadruple heart bypass. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke to be honest.

Looking after yourself is well and good but does not guarantee that you will remain healthy! Plenty of health conditions are hereditary. DH's manager, healthy eater, fit, not overweight, runner, had a stroke in his early 50s. Followed by the discovery he has a hole in his heart. One of my closest friends, pretty much vegan, barely drinks, swims, runs, hikes, but she gets really ill very often. Just a couple of examples. You can do all the right things, but luck plays a huge part.

You may not always be so smug.

And if anyone is in anyone about how genuine was the sentiment in Sunaks’ speech, here’s food for thought

https://apple.news/Az8CCgSVWQte4Zr532wTTVA

Retrain? Something that doesn’t require repetitively working with your arms/wrists.

A job for which you do not need your arms, yes there are a lot of those.

No, ‘most people’ are not obese due to predisposing illnesses. Some might, but the majority of people who are obese are that way due to over eating. I’ve been there, and yo-yo’d with my weight most of my life. I have an unhealthy relationship with food, and it’s my responsibility to correct that. Eat less, eat healthily with the odd treat, and you will not be obese.