To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

Retrain as what? If you can't do work on a keyboard then you are not likely to be able to do care work , any craft work. In fact much physical work. Most stuff involves using arms or wrists

Obviously 92.3% of statistics are made up but I was fairly sure the difference was in the under 50 demographic. A lot of the headlines fail to differentiate between the median and the standard deviation though, which is annoying. The difference is 700k not millions - there are always millions out of work for various reasons. 700k is still a huge amount from a cost POV though, even though no one can actually live on that amount individually.

Oh come on now. Surely you could retrain to type with your feet? Tsk.

I’m 43 and my job at a supermarket is very physical as now on the shop floor putting out delivery - usually heavy stuff from potatoes to bottles of pop, moving a roller cage with up to 400kg of products. Then putting overs (stuff that can’t go on shelf) either on the top stock shelf at the very top or in the chiller on the relevant chiller roller cage.

Then code checking - checking the dates on stuff, making sure it’s rotated, grovel near the floor and stand on a kick stool to check dates on the upper shelf.

Some days I do 22k steps!

Would like to see a breakdown of what people are off sick in which industry. Plus ones with the biggest increase. With the latter - healthcare (including care homes) and retail are my guesses.

Since having Covid, my asthma has got worse and had two asthma attacks. Plus on stronger and additional medication.

Have inherited a rare skin condition which if need any surgery, need time off work as the skin condition is around the eyes and nose - some surgeries that my relatives who have the condition had bandages on their face, covering up an eye for a week on average. Can’t be doing any work like that especially as the bandages prevent me from wearing specs. Can’t wear contacts. Plus get customers asking me every five minutes “what have you done to your face?”

@nothingsforgotten

I used to go to work, do my job, then go home - and I enjoyed my office work far more pre computer days. In later years it was all, as you said, a minefield of wellness training, target setting, restrictions, appraisals, new concepts all the time that are a flash in the pan to show off some new manager's 'innovative ideas'. Those 'innovative ideas' rarely came with consultation with those actually doing the job, with the consequence that things didn't run smoothly, and required a lot of extra work - from those at the coal face of course, not management - before the problems were ironed out. And don't start me on meetings - so many, many, meetings,

THIS! ^ If I could 'like' this post 100X I would!! (AND @Churchview 's too that you quoted.)

I reckon most people over 50 can identify with this post. It certainly resonates with me. Many jobs - post year-2000 - became such a fecking ball-ache most of the time. And yeah appraisals are shit. What narks me off is 'how can you improve yourself,' and 'what out of 5 do you give yourself for a, b, c, d, e, etc...' I can't say 'I don't need to improve' and 'I give myself 5 out of 5 for a, b, and c,' because they say 'there is no room for improvement if you mark yourself too high!' I think 'yeah? And?'

Then there's the fact that pre mid 1990s, you would have a filing clerk, a typist, a receptionist, a wages clerk, and a P.A. (5 positions/5 jobs...) NOW one person is expected to do all 5 jobs! In the noughties, I went from 4 days a week to 3, and yet still did the same amount of work - but had 25% less pay. I also kept getting more and more work piled on me.

And these days, very few unskilled labour jobs offer decent contracts. Many offer just 8 hours a week contracts. They will have you in 20, 25, 30 hours some weeks, but then when there is a quiet period (like the 2-3 months following Christmas,) you will just be given your 8 hours some weeks. THAT doesn't pay the bills! 40+ years ago, people would have come out on strike for this shit!

And YES to every new fucking manager wanting to change everything and stamp their mark on it. My friend's DH has been doing 4 on 4 off nights - 10pm-6am since 2008. Suits him down to the ground. Just him on the shift. Another guy is his 'opposite.' They are both around 50.

Last year, this 23 year old bloke came in as Manager. Told these 2 men they were going to be changing from doing the 10pm to 6am shift, to 12 midnight to 8am. No reason for it. Just wanted to stamp his foot down and show he was the boss! Both my friend's DH and the other chap told him to get to fuck. They said it would take them an hour to get home, in the rush hour (at 8am,) instead of 15 minutes! And upend their days as they wouldn't get in til 9am. (Instead of 6.15 am like they do now.) They told him he can do one basically.

They both refused, and they were helped by the fact that the people who worked 6am-2pm didn't want to change to 8am-4pm! And the 2pm-10pm people had no intention of changing from 4pm to midnight.... So it never happened. Cheeky arsehole just waltzed in and tried to change the shifts of a bunch of people twice his age and older, who had done these shifts for 15-16 years.

I agree. I'm almost 65 and while I get a bit creaky if I have been sitting in one position for a while I'm fine as soon as I get moving. Most of my friends are older than I am and are pretty fit and healthy, they certainly don't struggle to walk. I don't know anyone of 50 who would consider themselves decrepit.

@Ginmonkeyagain Most people are fine in their fifties. It is sixties you see more people with issues.
Except with those who have worked hard physical jobs since they were 16. My friends who did this do tend to have problems in their fifties. Back problems and knee problems are the most common.

Aging workforce.

Long waiting times for NHS appointments.

Overstretched NHS giving poorer quality care.

Oversubscribed private health care.

COL crisis meaning people are eating shit food and not putting the heating on.

COL crisis giving people mental health problems.

COL crisis making people overstretched - dovetailing in 2nd jobs, or looking after children all day then working night shift or similar.

Covid / long covid still in the mix.

People unable to get hold of medicines, as GPs / pharmacies cannot get round to doing prescriptions.

People unable to get hold of medicines, as problems with supply / stocking.

Loss of Sure Start Centres / Youth Groups / breastfeeding clinics etc, promoting healthy lifestyle choices and improving community engagement and mental health.

Holiday requests being refused at work, as everywhere understaffed, so people just work until they drop (at my work, and a lot of places I know, at least).

Climate change causing a damper, mouldier environment, then heatwaves in summer.

Over-full classrooms spreading diseases more rapidly.

Total absence of dentists.

The list goes on...

It's a cycle of decline, caused by years of erosion of all the services and structures that keep workers healthy. But by all means Rishi, "crack down on sick notes". What a dickhead.

Office workers can do things though, such as use a standing desk, walk around the office more, walk a bit more on the commute, ensure they exercise when not at work.

While I agree with the standing desk, that isn't always practical (or offered). I've worked at a desk for most of my life, walked to and from work twice a day as well as a lot more walking (I don't drive) and constantly was on the move in the office. It didn't stop me from developing lower back pain at quite an early age. And while I am slightly overweight now I certainly wasn't then.

That really isn't the same as having to keep on top of constantly changing systems and technology. You learn one system inside out then suddenly you have a completely new system and have to start from scratch. I was still reasonably okay when I left work, but some of my workmates, who were a bit older, were struggling, and I know my DF who worked for an accountant was the same. Fwiw I've also seen doctors and lawyers poking at their computers and requiring help. I suspect academics and senior doctors are a bit more invested in their careers than your average office worker, and they don't have to spend all day staring at a screen.

It is possible to exercise your brain without working, and people are more likely to do so with something they enjoy rather than something they have to do.

No-one should be working so many hours, that is just awful, and definitely unsustainable.

PIP is awarded where there are significant extra costs due to disability. Why do you see this as lucrative ? PIP is also non means tested so a lot of disabled people who claim it also work.

My husband has been off work since last summer. He is on the waiting list for full ankle replacement. Should have been this year but now they are saying at least 2 years. He is in a great deal of pain and walks with a very profound limp as it is affecting his knee and hips as well. He is a builder. I was retired but luckily managed to secure a job. They gave me a chance as I had none of the skills required. By the time he has the 2 operations needed and recovers he will be too old to do what he used to do. Tried for benefits but they said "so you can walk. You can lift. You can work then."So long as he doesn't move he's fine 😂

Had a day unpaid at work and got two in two weeks time. Apparently my store has 130 hours a week too many! We are short staffed. Problem is that 80% of customers shop in the same 20% hours that the store is open (different subject). Having the two days unpaid next month which works out I get 10 days off as booked some annual leave.

Not everyone can have unpaid time off as they can’t afford it.

How can head office say that we are over staffed and we need more staff? It makes no sense

Whatever you do when young will come back and bite you when you're old.

hip and joint problems are not all due to obesity.
what happens in your fit active lifestyle if you fall and break your hip?
increased wear and tear on the joint due to a very active life style can cause problems in later life.
shoulder joints particularly are put under immense strain in many sports
look at Andy Murray and his problems

I have not read the whole thread so forgive me if already mentioned. The main 3 issues cited in the news are chronic pain, type two diabetes, and mental health problems. These are all problems that could be managed with appropriate access to healthcare. It seems no coincidence to me that increasing rate of long-term sickness coincides with decreasing availability of NHS services, especially mental health. A few years ago, I worked with someone with severe mental health problems including psychosis. You would not believe the trouble she had getting any sort of mental health support despite the fact that she was paranoid, hearing voices, and barely functioning on a day-to-day basis. The Tories have over time deprived people of more and more healthcare then point the finger at them when they are too unwell to work.

@UPALLNIGHTMNETTING A depressingly accurate portrayal of life now.

hip and joint problems are not all due to obesity
Not it isn't...but the vast majority is.

Why do posters always try to divert from the elephant in the room by focusing on the exception?

The NHS and the economy can cope fine with the exception. It's the majority of hip and knee replacement due to long term obesity that is causing the NHS to struggle.

The main 3 issues cited in the news are chronic pain, type two diabetes, and mental health problems. These are all problems that could be managed with appropriate access to healthcare

And the NHS can't cope with the increasing numbers.

These are all issues that with taking responsibility of the problem, better self-management and self acknowledgement, should see the NHS able to cope with those whose conditions are not self inflicted, or the much smaller cases of those who failed at self-care with good reasons.

Sadly, our society is in complete self denial. As is the norm with self denial, finding blame on anyone or anything else goes directly with it.

It's time that we all wake up and make the very difficult changes in our lifestyle to save our healthcare and economy.

Well I can give you four exceptions just off the top of my head - my DF and three friends, all thin, fit, active, and healthy, and I'm pretty sure there are many others. Another friend who for many, many, years was extremely obese has no problems.

Of course obesity is likely to cause these issues, but the fact is joints wear out, and often it is the people who use them the most who have issues.

It doesn't matter how many examples you can give of fit health weight people having problems - it doesn't change the fact that poor health is partially self inflicted- although as mentioned up thread the correlation between poverty and poor self care is hugely significant

It's like this - if 1 in 2 planes crashed would you get in a plane just because your mam flew last year and her plane didn't crash ? Probability means something becomes more likely not that it's Guaranteed

Viva insomnia, you are correct. Thankfully a lot of people agreed. Me arrogant, should be thinking of people less fortunate!! As well as nursing over 40 years, when I saw things,no one else ever will, children with life threatening and life changing illnesses,I carried on after my shifts, did my best. Have also volunteered in hospitals,no pay. Looking after elderly neighbours, running them to appointments, collecting scripts. Looking after 5 of my GKs over the past 30 years, while parents work.... after a night shift! As for being lucky, good plentiful food fresh air. I explained I had ration books, food was basic. My DF was registered disabled, arthritis in his 20s and a degenerative spinal condition,no fancy sickpay in the 50s,60s,70s. They were chain smokers who ruined my lung capacity. As for being able to persue my career, I got pregnant at 18,was naive, got married, moved to Caledonian road,north London, highly polluted. Not that my parents would have allowed me to move into nursing accommodation at 18 anyway. Over the past 4 years, I looked after grandkids, I have a disabled son I'm carer for, I never caught COVID from any of them,or my DH, I was so careful! Then I did get it,am now under dermatologist (that was the nursing,no bad back but eczema and latex allergy) cardiology, endocrinology, audiology, completely deaf in right ear.

Exactly. It makes sense to do what you can to minimise the risk of becoming unwell as you age. If you don’t do anything, you lose your muscle mass as you age, which causes big issues just doing day to day tasks like getting out of a chair or off toilet. Maintaining your capacity to function as you age and reducing your risk of becoming sick should be at the top of everyone’s priority list.

Who knows what the future holds for me. Maybe I’ll get sick and immobile regardless of my efforts. One thing I do know is it won’t be for the lack of me trying to do all I can to avoid it.

I’m 60 and work full time in a very stressful job, it’s not something you can switch off so some weeks I work 50+ hours
I also care for elderly DM with dementia
As I am single - there is no one to share household tasks, diy etc with
I am always exhausted - due to my health conditions I get PIP which I use to pay for things that improve my health eg acupuncture, Pilates, private physio
Most of my friends of a similar age are married or in long term relationships and this has allowed them to work part time or retire early
I have no choice to do the same as still got a big mortgage which won’t be paid off until I’m 65