To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

Joint replacements are not all due to obesity. If you have a family history of arthritis which affects the joints, you know that you probably have one of these replaced.

Friend's mum broke her ankle as she let through someone with a mobility scooter through on a narrow pavement. She slipped off it somehow breaking it in two places. It wasn't healing at all and she's now had an ankle replacement. Now she's in a mobility scooter herself as can't walk far.

Joint replacements are not all due to obesity.
Most joint replacements are due to wear and tear. So you will find highest incidence at the youngest age of athletes, followed by those whose jobs require manual labour- even jobs you wouldn’t think like nursing or cleaning.

disagree.... i was diagnosed with arthritus in my early 20's... i need a new hip, have had 2 back surgeries, every joint in my body is affected.... im 57... i will move hell and high water to be working until retirement, not because i have too.. but because i want too.

a disability is a disability its not better or worse for you or anyone else... its the state of mind that matters.

do you say

i have arthritis i can't do this that or the other

or do you say

I have arthritis, how can i do this that or the other

big difference

It’s no coincidence that the top 5% of earners who have private healthcare and are in the least strenuous jobs have a higher liklihood of working into their 70s and 80s. Hint, it isn’t because of their superior brain activity.

Especially since they can afford to buy good food and pay for a cleaner and other perks that maximise their leisure when not at work. They can also afford proper holidays, tradesmen to maintain their home, heat, fast transportation, and hobbies.

I am afraid I am at a loss for words to respond to someone who thinks population level scientific studies on risk factors for healthy life span and work limiting health condition is ‘bullshit because of old home videos of skinny people’

No it’s not. The years long wait while in agony for a joint replacement results in the person becoming obese because they are in pain and therefore largely immobile. The obesity comes AFTER the injury or wear and tear damage to the joint, not BEFORE. Delays in joint surgeries or replacements, then INCREASE the number of patients who go from NORMAL weight to OBESE while waiting for surgery. That is why most patients going in for surgery are at that time, after years of waiting, obese.

Yes @Cherryon absolutely

I don't think that's always true. An awful lot of people are obese long before they develop joint issues. The obesity speeds will speed up the development of problems.

Of course it is not always true. However it is the majority.

The people who are “fat and fit” and then go on to develop muscoskeletal issues solely due to their excess weight are a tiny minority.

Now diabetes, heart disease is the the opposite. Obesity is a leading cause of those health conditions.

Can you link any research to support that? Logically, (not a medic, so possibly talking out my arse) obesity is going to impact wear and tear significantly.

Obesity does cause an already injured joint to deteriorate faster. But obesity and the lack of movement combined causes less wear and tear on joints than the wear and tear on a fit/athletic person.

Having a disability means you are 60% more likely to be obese than a person with no disability.

Even people with a head injury (TBI) are at higher risk of becoming obese due to the after effects of a mild traumatic brain injury. Cyclists, rugby, football, boxing, martial arts- there are many sports where a head injury (TBI) is common. https://www.biausa.org/professionals/research/tbi-model-systems/obesity-and-overweight-problems-among-individuals-1-to-25-years-following-acute-rehabilitation-for-t

Example on very common knee ACL tear- after surgery, only 25% returned to former levels of activity and 85% still had problems with their knee. Many participants reported weight gain hindered rehabilitation and failed to lose it long term. “ACL reconstruction may result in a vicious cycle of injury, sedentary lifestyle, weight gain and increased risk of musculoskeletal injury and cardiovascular disease. Impairments after injury and surgery and fear of re-injury may reduce physical activity and are associated with unfavourable weight gain post-surgery”
https://bmcsportsscimedrehabil.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13102-022-00499-x

I can find more, but have a meeting in ten minutes.

Even desk jobs though have changed. I am in my early fifties and have worked in a demanding office based job since my mid twenties. The last five years or so I have started to struggle just with the relentlessness of it all.

When I started, there wasn't even email - it was all done by letters and faxes. Then email came in, then we were issued with blackberries. You could be contacted all the time (as opposed to just when in the office). Blackberries (then work iPhones) were supplemented by remote log in - now have full availability 24/7. Email is not enough anymore, not fast enough - now we have messaging systems where people 'ping' you incessantly. The messaging systems used to just be on the PC, they can now be accessed on your corporate device. Brilliant.

The real differentiation between 'work' and 'home' has vanished almost completely now. You are expected to be available ALL THE TIME. I remember holidays where you could not work as the only method of communication was the phone box outside the hotel. Now the expectation is you check your corporate device once or twice a day. You can be called as they are calling your corporate device (they pay so what's the issue).

I think this is a large part of the reason. People are sick of the relentless nature of work.

It’s the bullshit concept of ‘continual growth’ making workers wring out every second, maximum productivity, timed toilet breaks, emails and texts about work outside work, two incomes required so no one at home causing added stress on both partners, performance management ‘how can you be BETTER’. The modern workplace is massively toxic, how is it surprising that so many have gone off sick from stress and physical stress related illness?

@thegreenlight totally agree, I think a lot of people are wising up to the fact that they are being treated like factory hens, exploited to make a relatively small number of people exorbitant amounts of money - whilst we should be grateful for our monthly wage. We are taxed at source, no loopholes, tax havens or non-dom status for us. The individual offices are gone, now we are in rows of 'hot desks' - don't leave any trace of yourself when you leave for the day.

But to make you feel valued we will send around emails talking about 'work life balance'; mental health and the importance of diversity and inclusion. You will be invited to run 'virtual' marathons with our colleagues and to attend 'fire side' chats with our illustrious leaders who tell us how valued we are.

Then you hear there is going to be a 'round' in London next week - and several well known faces disappear overnight and within days it is like they never existed. Their access to their email and to the offices is terminated within hours of being told.

Obesity and joint replacement

In summary, our study found a strong association between obesity and the need for TKR or THR in non-elderly adults. These findings support those previously observed in the elderly population. As the prevalence of overweight and obese individuals continues to rise, an increase in the number of total joint replacements may rise accordingly. Primary and secondary prevention programs aimed at reducing obesity are strongly recommended in light of the continuing rise in the number of adults classified as overweight or obese

How much evidence do people need to stop hiding in denial!!

My understanding is that the statistics indicate that most long term sick are younger people.

@CaptivatingandTrue that is surely a particular type of job and culture? The idea that you would work on holiday would be greeted with horror at my workplace, not even our CEO does that.

I think that years ago people left school early and got into manual jobs. They were not aware of how to do certain things to prevent injuries or cause less ware and tear on the body. Then some people were not aware of health eating, not smoking and how to much alcohol is bad also. Even in non manual jobs a lot of employers now just want young people so they can pay them less or just keep people on contract's. Your nearly expected to do the work of 2 people. Then some employers only want to give you x number of hours a week.

I think now that with the cost of living, housing, the jobs market and the stress a lot of people are under that something has to give be it your physical or mental health.
Rather than help people early on your put on a long waiting list and during this time your condition gets worse. Then if your entitled to any benefit to help you out it's a nightmare to claim.

I see so many people now in their 50's and they are having health issues either physical or mentally. I know one lady on disability as physically she is no longer able to work. She was working for over 30 years before this. I know another lady with some underlying health issues and I can see her wanting to go PT in her job in the next few years for her own health sake.
Even people who eat well, exercise, never smoked and are not big drinkers can end up with health issues that impact on their ability to work.

I also think that heavy drinking, a bad diet and or a lack of exercise can catch up on you in your 40's or 50's. I have one friend who lost 4 stone a few years ago and they are still watching their weight. Another friend of mine was overweight but refused to lose weight. They now have high blood pressure, sleep anopa and type 2 diabetes and other issues as well.

I think is government have no idea what the ordinary people here are going through. It easy to blame people on benefits rather than finding out the cause for all this and working towards fixing the problems

That is all driven by customer demand. Back in the 80s when I started work, if you wanted to buy something mail order, it was the "norm" to receive it within 28 days - that gave plenty of time for the administrators to process the order, the warehouse to pick and pick and despatch, etc., Nowadays, customers expect next day delivery which means everyone has to "jump" as soon as the order comes in, right through to manic delivery drivers who have ridiculous targets to meet.

Same with professional services, not just "items". I'm an accountant. Back in the 80s, people clients would drop off their "books" and they'd go into an informal queue and get processed as and when we got to them. Sometimes it could be a couple of weeks, other times a couple of months. If a client had a particular hurry, they'd let us know and we'd prioritise it and do it within a few weeks. Clients knew it could take typically 1-3 months so would tend to get the stuff to us soon enough ahead of deadlines etc. Nowadays, it's not unknown for a client to dump a huge box of paperwork the day before a deadline (even though they've had nine months since the tax year end!), and expect us to process it all within a day, then whinge if we don't.

Same with "just in time" stock ordering/delivering for businesses. They used to have plenty of stocks as deliveries may only be weekly or monthly, so they would use experience and order history to keep plenty of "common" items in stock. Now they barely have anything in stock because they know they can order it in next day.

Everyone is in a hurry and that has to impact on businesses and other organisations. No one plans in advance anymore, whether they're a private individual or a business or other organisation. So it's not necessarily the management of an organisation who are driving the "instant" do-it-now culture, there are also external factors, such as from customers.

Exactly this! My husband and I both work but are now starting to think we are just wasting our time and effort. We have two children and can't afford anything once all the bills have been paid. We might as well be on benefit and be time rich.

And there are much fewer staff to do it.

Also, there is hardly any social care for the elderly so a lot of (mainly) women are doing their best to cope with ill parents.

There's a proportion of the population who are drug users / alcoholics that are classed as "on the sick"

European countries take covid seriously. They offered vaccine to all from 6 months old, and continue to do so. UK has restricted eligibility. UK also restricted antivirals - to the point we now have zero covid budget. UK also removed mitigations much quicker than other countries. Our infection rates were much, much higher than other countries leading to more long covid and covid caused organ damage and worsening existing conditions. Other countries have also built covid mitigations into law - ventilation under 800ppm, HEPA filtration in public building incl schools and healthcare. We have just encouraged repeat infections - that's your 'mass disabling event' as highlighted by WHO.
We also have an abelist outlook. Recent Gov study shows that c.50% of workforce don't take full holiday entitlement as they are too stressed to deal with catching up after their hols. And we all know the shocking state of NHS and waitlists. Until we actively embrace working to live and not living to work and prioritise health than things won't improve.

Tbf I’m in my forties and registered sight impaired (due to a loss of a substantial part of my peripheral vision). I need to claim pip. I’m not working but atm but I am caring for my child with additional needs.
my condition is degenerative and I will lose more sight but I have ever intention of working if people can or will make the adaptations.