To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

On the different retirement ages for manual labourers, it would have to be carefully thought through.

I was just watching a documentary about Greece and apparently they used to have a system where manual workers could retire earlier on their final salary. Needless to say a lot of occupations seemed to manage to get themselves designated as "manual occupations".

They could be useful compost?

Any chance you could send it again, I tried to open it and then I clicked on "cancel" and it has gone!

Do you mind sharing such research?
Because statistics from job sites show that warehouse operatives, cleaners, drivers, trade apprenrices etc. are in high demand.
Seconded by jobs that require education but not massive social skills such as cyber security and data enginers.

@Almostwelsh Article referred to people under 35, surely majority are not new drivers with almost decade and a half of driving experience, so insurrance would not be an issue.

There was a fact checking article on the BBC about this. It seems to be a combo of 1) more over 50s being part of the work force. And 2) longer waiting lists/ issues with NHS investment in mental health and chronic pain treatment (noted hip and knee replacements being a serious issue).

And go to any hospitality establishment during the day in the working week and there will be many retired people.

Yes there it is quite a lot correct in what you say @Lazykitten

I know quite a number of people who started work at 16 - back in the late 70s/early 80s in manual labour jobs like factories, foundries, building sites, and general blue-collar unskilled manual labour. They worked long days (8am til 5pm, Monday to Friday,) had 4 weeks holiday a year, and rarely had a day off sick.

Then came the age of around mid to late 40s, and they had to have some time off work after maybe 30-35 years of working (because of an accident or illness.) They had 3-5 months off on the sick, and realised they absolutely fucking loved being at home ... and not having to go to go out work. Some went part time afterwards, and then by 53-55 y.o. they went on the sick with a bad back, or depression, (or something else that kept them off for 4-6 months,) and they never went back to work.

Six or seven years later and around 60-62 y.o. and they're just holding out for their retirement now - and they have absolutely no intention whatsoever of going back to work. They feel like they've paid their dues and earned their stripes. 38-40 years at work (in an unskilled-labour grunt job,) and paying their taxes. And they love their leisure time - being with their friends, being with their family, being in the garden, going to the pub for lunch, going on daytrips, and being with their grandkids etc.

And like you say, at this age you know there's no way in hell they're going to get a decent job - except a 4 hour a week contract in B & M. So they just claim ESA and get their rent and council tax paid (some are homeowners and mortgage free,) and have a bloody jolly good life. Some people might say it's swinging the lead and taking the piss out of the system, but can anybody blame them really? To be quite honest, most full time, unskilled-labour jobs are absolute fucking pigshit. Who wants 52 years of doing that.... really?!

Wow,arent you a charmer?!

My DD trained in a specialised medical career, works fucking hard in the NHS. They are losing staff day by day which impacts those who stay even more. Without her and her colleagues, there wouldnt be the operations that are so desperately needed.

She said to me only a couple of weeks ago "Me and [partner] are trying to save but whats the fucking point? Why do we bother to go to work when I could get signed off with my PTSD (very severe due to an incident abroad a few years ago) and [partner] with his autism. We could stay at home and game all day like everyone else seems to!"

They wont do that but she was at the end of a long week with no end in sight, crap managers in a failing institution and no real prospect of them achieving what they are working so hard to get. They look into the future and see years of working with fuck all to show for it.

The average retirement age is coming down slightly, not going up. What is The Average Retirement Age in the UK? (Updated 2024) (insurancehero.org.uk)

I don't fancy your DD's chances of being signed off with PTSD if Rishi Sunak gets his way.

One issue is that the JSA is so brief and brutal (take any job on minimum wage with 90mins travelling time) that moving onto sick pay is a way of coping for many. However there is then a real barrier getting back into work

I am glad sometimes that I am at the latter part of my working life.

@vivainsomnia But he was a weapons grade cunt in life, death doesn't change that. A bully who was estranged from his adult children - I don't think he was mourned by many! And seeing as he was someone who joked about a colleague who was on long term sick with severe depression that it would sort out their HR problems if she killed herself, I'd say his early death was quite karmic.

Neither do I .

She wouldn't anyway but I do understand her frustration.

Will do! 🙂

@Bluebellsinthesun yep!

I think in France if you worked in manual Labour you can retire earlier. This includes women who started work early and did low paid jobs that were physical (cleaning, etc). It’s down to how many contributions you have but I think it works out as manual workers can retire earlier on less credits but they carry enough weight to get the full pension.

Did anyone see the article today about the number of Tory MPs who have effectively gone awol already and disappeared on state funded jollies or taken second jobs because they expect to stand down at the next election? They should get their own house in order, then look at the rest of the population.

Yes, of course.

I started working in an office just after my 16th birthday, and I have suffered from on and off lower back pain for years, which I believe is caused by sitting at a desk all day. After taking voluntary redundancy I had temp jobs where I was standing all day, lifting heavy parcels, bending a lot - no problem at all with my back. I also used to get tired eyes - that too stopped when I stopped office work. Another thing about office work is continually changing technology. There comes a time when your brain just doesn't want to have to learn another new system.

Fortunately where I live retirement age is still 65. I do have to say however that I don't actually know anyone on long term sick leave because of ill health. I realise that people are of course, but never anyone I have worked with.

If parents had child in ND group they sent it to some sort of simple trade apprentice route or to factory and it was career. No one expected rainbows and sunshine out of job.

Great if you have bright kid but if their other characteristics limit social interaction you as a parent should help them find a career where it is not prominent.

They sent "it"?!

Autistic people are humans, not objects. We're also not all stupid. Based on your comment I'm certain that many are far more intelligent than you, regardless of your personal opinion on their different communication style and your inability to adapt to that. How ironic.

You would probably still be living in a cave trying to figure out how to light a fire if it wasn't for ND people. Be grateful that they've provided much of the science and art that the comforts of which much of modern life consists.

What at astonishingly ignorant comment.

I totally agree with you. I am 64 and I often say to friends that work in the last part of my life wasn't as good as in the first part. I used to go to work, do my job, then go home - and I enjoyed my office work far more pre computer days. In later years it was all, as you said, a minefield of wellness training, target setting, restrictions, appraisals, new concepts all the time that are a flash in the pan to show off some new manager's 'innovative ideas'. Those 'innovative ideas' rarely came with consultation with those actually doing the job, with the consequence that things didn't run smoothly, and required a lot of extra work - from those at the coal face of course, not management - before the problems were ironed out. And don't start me on meetings - so many, many, meetings, mostly involving management while the rest of the staff got on with the actual work. Even my most recent part-time job, with a staff of three, was subject to nonsensical ideas from the Board.

I am so pleased that I retired a year early and got away from it all. I just work a casual job now - go in, work, come home. No stress, no meetings, no nonsense.

I come across many during my work and they are all in their 20s and 30s. Some have never worked. They have children who are refusing to attend school- claiming mental health issues like their parents. We are building a society of non-workers who contribute nothing.

I never said they should move. I never even implied it. I don't think they should move.

I was pointing out one of the systemic problems in our broken housing market. Some young people cannot afford a home at all, whilst some older people are hugely under-accommodated.

Thinking of those who work into their later years, such as the Queen and David Attenborough - their work was part of their life purpose. I think if you want to be working into later years your work has to be meaningful to you. Those who have 'jobs' rather than a purpose are never going to have the motivation to carry on past retirement. I think having a purpose is necessary for us to get the most from our working lives.