To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

TBH, IU made sure I got my fair share of sick pay as almost everyone else seemed to be doing it when I worked for local gov etc

May I ask what you mean by "fair share"? The sick pay system is there to pay individuals for their individual sickness levels. Which varies. There is no such thing as a "fair share" as everyone is different. If a workplace has too many people with similar levels of sickness then that should ring alarm bells because it's an unnatural state of affairs. I find it bizarre that you consider it an acceptable notion to "dole out" sick pay so that everyone gets an equal measure of it.

And no, YOU may work in workplaces where the culture is such that people take a week off for a cold. There are plenty of workplaces where that doesn't happen, because their work is essential and each day you are off causes issues for your colleagues/bosses/customers/clients and actually, often yourself, because you come back to an inbox which is stuffed full of stuff for you to action because there's no-one else able to act on it.

All local government roles are not like that. They do exist, I give you that.

I am almost 65, up until recently I was as fit as a fiddle, walked my dog miles everyday, ate healthily and generally in very good nick. All that changed when I slipped and broke my ankle, recovery is slow and living alone, it has made me realise how fragile that line is between good and bad health.
I hope your luck continues but at your age you should be doing ok!

Would he be able to do something like a supermarket check out or even a driving instructor?

I have osteoarthritis in my foot and it's definitely getting worse as I get older. My other leg compensates for it too so I have a sore hip on the other side. It's rubbish isn't it.

I agree with you, OP. I would honestly be agreeable to retiring later than someone whose body just cannot take any more physical work.

Maybe there should be a system of "manual labour credits" to go with the national insurance years? So that if you have collected "x" number of "manual labour years", you can retire "y" years early?

@InTheUpsideDownToday there aren't really roles in supermarkets that are solely sitting at a till any more. I guess he could work as a driving instructor, but that's often a self employed role with start up costs. And you've got to be quick on the dual control foot pedals I would think.

@Rosscameasdoody Excellent post. It is indeed standard Tory ideology at play here.

I also have an office job and the constant sitting is causing back issues but aside from that, I have a corporate job that is crazy busy and often stressful. I enjoy it, but sometimes I have to work silly hours to get the job done and I don't think I would still be emotionally capable of coping with a workload like this in 20 years time. But I also won't be able to afford to retire in my early 60s, so I'm not sure what I'll do. I would happily take a lower paid, more entry level job, but who would hire me? I'd be competing with younger, more energetic people who aren't just counting the days to retirement. I think a lot of office-based people will end up being signed off long term with stress.

Totally agree that people in physical jobs shouldn't be expected to keep going till they are late 60s/early 70s though.

it isnt parents
kids are on a conveyor belt to do gcses, a levels, university degree - set up by school.

I think couples will need to pick one to retire and the other to keep going, where there's ill health.

I'm planning to work till 68, in my sedentary office job - I need my routine, I have ADHD. I can't cope with more than 2 weeks off work, by the end I'm desperate to get back into my routine.

DH would be fine pottering about, he wants to retire at 55 - fine with me, as long as DS has finished university and is well set up for life. I don't mind supporting us both.

I suspect many others don't feel the same though, and it'll lead to some difficult conversations and decisions when both want to retire but can only afford one early retirement.

YANBU.

Been saying for years manual workers should have a lower retirement age......let's face it we'd be fucked without bricklayers and plumbers etc. That type of work takes a massive toll on the body yet they're expected to work as long as someone who sits behind a desk all day. It's just not sustainable.

It won’t be long before the tories start whinging about the amount of dead that are out of work and not contributing to society 😂

@Lifeomars I have sent you a pm, hope you don't mind!

Pip and other benefits can be quite lucrative- No council tax and rent paid via housing benefit- Probably pays more than a menial job?

Can you explain what have they done to the vulnerable in society to make you say that?

I think they are a bunch of useless idiots but I don't see that they have been deliberately cruel. As far as I can see the state is handing out tens of billions through the welfare state and is extremely generous.

Trying getting it as a genuine claimant!!

Working 90-100 hour weeks was the reason I went off sick. It had nothing to do with retirement age but burnout.

Just because he died doesn't make him a good person!

Men have always retired at 65 so i don't see how the 2 year change can make that much difference?

Ah I guess.
Perhaps a nightshift job in a garage - they usually just man the little window though not sure if they have to do other tasks too.
Tough one 😞

My brother has multiple chronic mental and physical conditions that mean he is unable to look after himself and will never be able to work.

Regularly he has to complete a PIP assessment. It is a tortuous time of worry for him him and beyond his capability. I have to help him through this process which is complicated, long drawn out and seemingly designed to dehumanise the individual. To me this seems a deliberately cruel scheme.

There needs to be more joined up thinking. On one of the skin tv programmes was a lovely young lad who had a huge cyst in the middle of his forehead. Under the nice guidelines it couldn’t be dealt with as it was cosmetic. However this lump made him develop depression, affected his sight as he couldn’t see round it very well. As a result he was signed off work claiming benefit and the nhs were very happy to give pain relief and anti-depressants.

As soon as the lump was removed his depression lifted and he could see again! He also got himself a job and came off benefit.

I wonder how many similar stories there are?

There was a thread a few weeks ago about what % of the population have autism/ADHD. Every early years and primary teacher said a handful in each class - quite a significant minority really and loads higher than the official stats. I know loads of adults who have sought diagnosis too. This huge increase will, in a few years also add to the working age population not working. (I know some people with autism can work but lots can’t)

I have a relative in similar situation. I have no idea why they have to be continually assessed over and over again. Their condition is not going to change!!

@KvotheTheBloodless People expect 20 or 30 years in retirement, not financially contributing to the treasury.

Retired people pay VAT, tax on investment interest, fuel tax, road tax, council tax, stamp duty, tax on income from sources other than work etc.

Before I retired I worked in the homes of retired people. They employed an army of people - chiropodists, mobile hairdressers, cleaners, plumbers, odd job people, window cleaners, gardeners and more. Servicing the needs of the elderly is a huge source of income for workers (especially the self employed) and all these workers pay tax as a result.