To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

These people have bought their homes, probably in times of very high interest rates. Why should they not continue to live there?

Yes and in some countries retirement age is different for people who did arduous jobs.
Also, many people made redundant in the past were actively pushed onto 'the sick' to keep unemployment figures down.

I am sure you are right OP, but I think it's more multifaceted than that. For example, I know three people currently signed off while they are on ridiculously long waiting lists for treatments/ operations. If the NhS was more efficient, I have no doubt they would be back in work, but they simply can't. The government cannot keep moaning about benefits scroungers, while not supporting the medical care many of these people need.

You sound like my cunt of an ex boss who stated loudly and regularly that "only weak people get sick

Yeah, that's just what I said, isn't it? That only weak people get sick 🙄You might want to learn to read posts without bias.

And nice of you to refer to your boss who died unexpectedly a cunt.

No there aren't plenty of factory jobs. Our manufacturing capacity is nowhere near what it used to be. In some locations there are very few. Cleaning maybe, but driving isn't a job for young people any more, as its prohibitively expense to insure them.

Shelf filling in supermarkets isn't a job in itself now either. People are expected to be customer service staff and move from shelf stacking to customer facing as needed. Anyone who has poor social skills will be excluded. If you try to get a job at any of the big supermarkets you will find their online recruitment is often extremely tricky

@LondonFox there is lots of research about how there are very few of those types of jobs anymore. It is a real issue.

Exactly that always has been

TBH, IU made sure I got my fair share of sick pay as almost everyone else seemed to be doing it when I worked for local gov etc

The couple of times I worked for the private sector, it was really much harder to get more than a week off sick even if you really was ill EG flue, severe cold, back pains - not talking re being very sick

The funny thin is about 15 years ago i was very poorly and signed of for 2 weeks at a time. Incredible as it seem, I wanted to go back to work - most likely because I wanted to be well -

I've been honest and if anyone attack my post for honesty re taking sickies when i should not have - millions do it IMO - ie start off with a heavy cold etc, instead of two days off, take off the week

You are lucky, my DH, is 58, a builder, still works 6 days a week, but his knees, elbows and wrists kill him, so not a case off use it or you loose it. We started paying for private health as we know he will need knee replacements.
I worked in an Alcohol Support unit, they would give each other tips on how to get through the assessment to claim long term sick, makes me so mad, scroungers

Totally!

Loads of older nurses retired early with bad backs as nursing used to require a lot of lifting. Now it is carers who often end up with bad backs.
Everyone I know in the trades has major issues with their knees. The only people who seem to be able to go onto state retirement age are either those who are able to move to only doing small jobs, or who have staff they employ to do the heavy work.
Middle class people think physical jobs are the same as their exercise routine, and it really is not.

Yes there is total lack of infrastructure for walking, it's all geared for cars. In rural areas there are often no paths at all alongside 60mph roads and it would be taking your life into your hands to walk alongside.
The planning system needs to be geared up for developers to provide much needed paths if they are to succeed in a planning application.

Added to this is the restricted access to the countryside, few public rights of way and the existing network is poorly maintained, landowners blocking paths etc.
If a right to responsible access was brought in similar to that in Scotland, then I'm sure people would walk more and in turn be much healthier.

My Dad worked until well into his 70s, and only retired because diabetes had ravaged his eyesight and he physically had to stop. He missed it for years afterwards. He was a plumber/heating engineer, mainly commercial stuff.

Mum is 77 this year, and still working part time (also a physical job). She's too scared to give up working and be stuck at home with my stepdad who didn't retire well and has morphed into Victor Meldrew on steroids.

Me too - why should I work all my life just to give someone else a free retirement who has sat on their arse their whole life while my workplace and private pensions gives me only the same level of provision as them? As far as I see it, my workplace and private pensions now are there to provide me with additional funds to give me a retirement that is something beyond just the very basic "enough to keep you alive" type of income that the state aims to provide to stop people falling into destitution.

There would be uproar if some people sat on benefits their whole life, including during retirement, when they could have worked, while everyone else paid for them yet could only afford the same standard of living for themselves. Where is the incentive to work otherwise? Many many workplace pensions are not enough to live on on their own as it is, especially in the so-called "gold plated" public sector. I wish people would stop going on about public sector pensions, don't people realise that the young people joining them now are on on way less generous terms and conditions than their already retired/close to retirement colleagues?

There has to be some level of personal responsibility to provide for oneself in retirement if you are able to. And there needs to be plenty of public information years before people are due to retire so that people are aware of this. People are retiring and getting shocks as to how little they have to live on. It's too late by then to do anything about it.

It’s mad to think that retirement age is the same for everyone. It’s quite obvious some jobs you need to be young and fit and you sacrifice your body and long term health for the profession. For example, firefighters do have an earlier retirement but even that has been pushed up. Would you really want a 60 yo with bad hips from years of being in dangerous situations that wear the body rescuing you from a fire? Same goes for builders, electricians and so on. The system is not fit for purpose.

I’m in an office job. Have been since I was young. Coming up to 50 and I’m suffering terribly from musculoskeletal issues from sitting and typing all day. Even now I’m in pain daily and I implement all the advice re breaks and good posture. I honestly can’t see how I will get away with fucking my body like this for another 20 years.

Love all the 40 somethings saying we must keep healthy by exercise and diet to prevent future problems.

I did.

I’m totally housebound with Long Covid. It made no difference to me.

Most people who are obese are obese due to a mobility limiting disability that they have acquired.

Bullshit. There are so many more overweight young people out there now who are at their peak of health. You only have to look at old footage from the 70s and 80s, and even 90s. There were very few obese children, teenagers and 20 somethings. Obesity has sadly become normalised. People are simply taking in far more calories than they need for the energy they are expending as people are much more sedentary than they were 25 years ago.

I wonder whether it's worth saying that retirement is 'earned' after x many years of work? Or maybe roles should be categorised somehow? Or maybe the requirement to look for work could be part time after the age of 60/in poor health?

It's a really tricky area, as it's clearly not affordable or fair for an ever-decreasing working age population to maintain an ever-growing population of older people. People expect 20 or 30 years in retirement, not financially contributing to the treasury - it's not a sustainable model. As new treatments appear, people live longer lives, but in worse health, so are a double burden in terms of both pensions and the NHS.

To be clear, I don't have the answer, and I feel very sorry for the politicians who have to find a solution that is both affordable and palatable.

I'm a 62 year old medical professional. My body is basically fucked. I need a hip and knee replacement and my back pain is horrendous. I dont know how I keep going. I have 5 years left to work. The waiting ilist s is years long. My GP doesn't give a shit. I have no idea where to go from here.

The private sector I worked for only give you 2 weeks of SSP, I think I will looking into moving to public sector in my 50s, better pension as well 😉

Strange idea. Let's see, in the 15 years overall I was with the company I was off for a couple of weeks due to a knee replacement (age related perhaps), had a few colds so off for a few days here and there, and.....nope that's it.

Last department I was at 60+ the oldest by a long shot in my department. The 5 years I spent in that department there was a chap under 25 who was in a total of perhaps 3 months. Stress, skin complaints (couldn't come in when he had a breakout), a cold, upset tummy, blah blah blah. And then he'd come in, come straight to me and ask how many holidays he had available. Most of the people who were off long term intermittently were all under 30.

I also wonder if the migration from Tax credits to Universal credit is having an effect. It is very difficult to be "self employed" in a gig type job or where you take on work as and when you can. On UC as you have to meet a minimum income floor of around the national minimum wage for a full week's work before you get any benefit. If you can't meet this every month then your self employment can be seen as "unviable" and you have to take other work. On Tax credits, I know of many people who worked when they could around illness ( but didn't claim ESA or PIP) as the working tax and child tax credit gave them enough income to survive on on top of earnings. Now on UC they are penalised for just working when they can or receiving monies sporadically ( income not averaged over the year) so many are seeking PIP and ESA/LCWRA instead.

I agree.
I think it was a mistake what the government did to the 50's born women in making them work another 6 years, some without notice.
Many of these women have worked since 15/16 years of age and are tired and some physically not able to give anymore. I also think for those on a low salary there's little incentive to work when so many people are claiming benefits, and seemingly doing better than those working and don't get me started on the influx of immigrants coming to this country with nothing to offer apart from turning up with open hands ready for the payouts that seem to be thrown at them by this government, without having to jump through hoops.
I think the younger people are disenchanted with the prospect of working their balls off and still not be able to buy property whilst paying exorbitant rents.
So yes, I know there are some people who are on long term sick, some with no interest in returning to work.
So, all in all, I think we could be in a worse position but in terms of Great Britain, forget it there is no Great, this country is stuffed!!

Indeed that's an important point, that staying healthy doesn't guarantee future health. Too many people seem to think that serious illness is something that happens to "other people." Any person can get hit with an unexpected or debilitating medical condition at any time.

I know many older people are suffering with issues that they have had all their lives, but when they were younger they were able to compensate a bit more. Its not the case that it's all bad diet and no exercise.

I have a relative in his early 60s who injured his leg badly in a car crash as a young man. When he was young, he was fairly mobile although often in pain, but he just got on with it. As he reached his 50s the other leg started to fail, due to the pressure put on it from compensating for the bad leg.

He's not academic, but used to work as a delivery driver. Now although he can still drive, he can't get in and out of the vehicle multiple times a shift and stay on schedule. Nor would he pass a medical to drive a bus or lorry. Everything he does has to be done very slowly. He took a cleaning job, but wasn't fast enough. But he's not disabled enough for disability benefits. He has 4 years to go until his state pension.