Do you plan for your child's education assuming they'll be super smart ?

[trainsg]

I've been in touch with a few parents in my DS nursery.

They will all start school in September so of course the talk is all about where they may or may not go.

I've noticed that very educated parents seem to be planning their child's education, expecting them to go to a grammar school or ruling out other schools for not being academic enough etc.

I'm also educated ( masters degree etc ) and I had good grades at school but I'm not assuming my children are going to be like me and I would rather assume that I want them to be in the nicest environment for them, rather than the most academic one to start with.

My child is 4. So it's hard to tell how it will go for him. I want to see, if he's academically gifted and a grammar school or an ultra competitive school is for him, it will become clear. But I'm not planning my choices from primary school, assuming he'll be a genius.

I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong. In fact I'm starting to think I'm wrong because all the parents I speak to, seem to be planning for their children to go to grammar school / highly competitive schools already. Maybe I have the wrong attitude ? I just don't want my child to be under all this pressure from us. Just because we were reasonably academic, doesn't mean he'll be too. Or do you ' make a child academic '?

Well, I didn't mean 'poor' in terms of aspirations etc.

I actually think a child from a struggling home, such as you describe, is more likely to benefit from any form of special interaction. A child like that is more likely to do well as a result of being at private school.

Don't go there. We are a two Oxbridge PhD household, smart DS1, top at small village primary, never needed pushing, coasted GCSEs at very average/poor secondary (we don't do public schools). He rebelled against being smart, but went to a high flying sixth form which he hated with such a passion that he's rebelled his way through it all. It's tainted his view of the world and I can't fix it.

Sure some kids are smart and thrive in a highly academic, high stake environment but it's not a given and I'd give anything for his mental health to be better.

Don't force it.

I doubt you have two Oxbridge PhDs.

I think parents are placing their kids where they think they can maximise their potential. Thats no guarantee, as I said if DD doesn’t turn out to be academic I’ll just adjust with that. I put her somewhere which is academically strong but also has a very cosy atmosphere. Why on earth would I choose something less than that given I’m lucky enough to have a choice?

I have no idea where she will be in 20 years but I’d very much like for her to have the best crack at life as possible. I have quite a few non graduates in my family who are doing great, some in trades, some in professional jobs etc that may be a path she chooses and thats fine, it’s the path her dad chose and he’s very happy with his career and how things have turned out.

I do agree with you that kids blossom at different ages, it could be academic, art, sports whatever but no-one here is writing off kids, they are covering their bases.

I’m not sure what your point is, you’ve handed your child an advantage by putting them into an independent school that you thought would be best placed to meet their needs? But you think it’s not on for other parents to put their kids in schools that are best placed to suit their needs?

I agree it’s not a good idea to project expectations onto your children about what and who they will be. Thats for them to decide, they should hold their own lives in their own hands. But to me thats got nothing to do with the school I choose. The deal is, I do my best for her and she then does what she will with that. I would hope thats a life she can fund herself and that she will live comfortably and not worry about paying the mortgage but it’s not my choice, it’s hers.

Yeah I said that when I said environment. But in an already nurturing environment I doubt I can add 20 IQ points by buying it.

If you can afford to.start putting back a little every month into a high interest account for when/if they want to go to Uni. So many parents don't realise how much they are expected to contribute and trying to find all that money over 4 or 5 years will be hard, especially if you decide to have more than one DC. Starting when they are small means you only need to pay a little every month.

I don't live in grammar area.

Where I live the schools in the immediate area aren't great. There are less opportunities for the children and the infant leads to juniors which leads to a mediocre secondary. Once down the route of the local schools that is the route you really have to take unless you move. The secondary doesn't perform highly on grades (I know there's more to it), there's less variety in subject, less opportunities overall.

10 mins away are undersubscribed infant schools which are much better in many ways (not just academics). It leads you down a different route. So the infant feeds into much better juniors which feed into much more academic secondaries. I planned for this at age 4, knowing that at any point I could go back into the schools on my doorstep if I wanted something different but I couldn't go the other way so easily.

So I did plan for my children to be academic but not because I wanted to be pushy, but because if they were academically inclined I wanting those options to be open to them.

@SarahAndQuack

You are right. I have one and DH has the other.

You can tell somewhat at 1-4yo.
Dc1 was very bright. Thousands of words before 2.
Taught herself blending words from alphablocks.
But frankly state school have been pretty shit. And as she was young in year her reading chapter books by 5 in reception didnt seem impressive.

Also dd is very awkward so as time has gone on she hasnt achieved her potential.
Compared to very easy going dc who seemed very average but parents have pushed hard with extra work etc. Extra sport and music.

At my school we had a lot of assisted places yes some were wasted on kids who werent actually that bright and were disruptive and missed classes. But my friend did science alevels and went on to do chemistry degree.

Personality and self motivation or response to external motivation make so much difference!

My 2 DS’s are both very bright. We had high hopes for both of them to do well
through school. Sadly, it didn’t work out that way. Both were later diagnosed with ADHD, one left school with 2 GCSE’s and one didn’t finish school at all. Both have had their confidence knocked but are navigating their way through life the best they can.

With my 2 year old, honestly yes I am planning. DH and I both have PhDs and it has been clear DS is extremely bright since around 18mo. Now, whether he will turn out to have challenges such as ASD (he’s really gifted with numbers) or severe dyslexia like DH I don’t know, so just because I’m planning doesn’t mean I’m assuming anything, if that makes sense. Above all I want him to be happy, and knowing his personality so far that actually involves being academically challenged; I was the same as a child, easily bored and loved problem solving.

I disagree, but that's fine!

DH learned a trade, I have a degree. We will chose what is best for each child.

Presumably one of you has a DPhil?

No, my DS went to a local primary and the secondary it feeds into. He's looking like a shoo-in for Cambridge

Really? Like, do you genuinely think this?

I've got a four year old and two older children at primary school. I can't really say that I know if any of them is especially intelligent or academically able, but especially the four year old.

The eldest is a very good reader, above average for his age, so I might be able to say with him and the middle one is looking very likely to be dyslexic, so I guess that's a factor for him. But the four year old? She just seems like any other four year old really.

I've got a masters degree and DH is very bright but severely dyslexic and old enough for that to have impacted his educational prospects unfortunately. But I don't think I showed any great prowess at four years old.

My DD was slow to develop speech, glue ear, needed intervention with the year 2 phonics screening, couldn’t spell, behind with reading etc.

Now in year 9 diagnosed dyslexic is predicted grade 6 for maths and science, grade 7-8 for English and Humanities. Her reading took off when schools were shut during CoViD and she has absolutely thrived in a very ordinary comprehensive.

No way we could have predicted this at age 4. We have never pushed her. We’re both educated to masters level so there is cultural capital I guess, and we try and expose the kids to things we think will interest them. That’s more important than the school you choose I think (unless the school is exceptionally rough and failing).

@SarahAndQuack

Touche. Yes we both have. But I hate to show off...

I absolutely agree. My oldest went through Reception, Year 1 and Year 2 as top of her class academically. Possibly something to do with being oldest as a September birthday and hard working. Now, in year 3, she is very much middle of the class - as the work gets harder and the benefit her older age gives her reduces in its effect. We are in a grammar school area and had previously anticipated she was get in quite easily. Now we are re thinking and considering whether to look at private schools for secondary, as our nearest comprehensive is awful from a social /behaviour/bullying perspective (which I put much greater weight on than the academics).
In contrast, our youngest started Reception at the very bottom, and has rapidly progressed over 2 terms to the top of the year, and her spelling is sometimes better than her year 3 sisters!
It's very hard to predict until at least year 4/5 what their true academic abilities will be.

Yeah I do genuinely think it.

And I've proven to be correct with my eldest (now at college with stellar grades) and my youngest (still in secondary) is in top set at a fab school.

I'd have guessed that at 4 tbh, barring any sort of tragedy in our home life.

Oh, ok, I'm a bit embarrassed now.

I was just being pedantic. Cambridge issues PhD degrees. Oxford issues DPhils. If you and your DH went to Oxford and Cambridge respectively, you'd have a DPhil and a PhD. It was just a silly pedantic point that someone who'd done those degrees would pick up on! You wouldn't have two Oxbridge PhDs and you wouldn't both have DPhils from 'Oxbridge'.

I did. DH abc I were both super academic, reading by 4, high IQ etc.

Neither child is even remotely academically inclined. At all. No matter what I did I couldn't interest them in a book, or even reading as a concept.

We home educate now. It means I can cater to their strengths and build them up without them being taught they are failures by the school system.

What does that prove, though? Most Cambridge undergrads are not geniuses, and why should they be?! They often have above-average IQs (not always!). Of course many of them went to state schools, but it's still a worry that private school students are hugely overrepresented.

I remember a comment from DS1's reception teacher at parents evening, - she said he had a very academic style, she has been proved to be absolutely right. He is not a genius but a very hard worker and very methodical. All 9's and 8's at GCSE and heading for good A levels

Same teacher also told us DS2 was very bright but in a different way. Again she was right, he is more naturally bright reads everything he can get his hands on and never forgets facts. Aiming for better GCSE's than his brother but is not as methodical and has a tendency to make silly mistakes.

So I do think you can tell with some children from a very early age.

@SarahAndQuack

You saw right through me. Yup. Both Oxford. I prefer the term PhD.

I wouldn't wish an Oxford undergraduate place on my child - it was an awful, claustrophic, self gratification festival. Too many private school with a self entitlement issue. I hope it's more like real-life now. There are better places to go, and I'm grateful that most realise that now.

Luckily for a PhD, sorry DPhil 🙂, it was a bit more real. Plus you could avoid all the undergraduate crap, apart from the tutoring which provided welcome beer money.