Do you plan for your child's education assuming they'll be super smart ?

[trainsg]

I've been in touch with a few parents in my DS nursery.

They will all start school in September so of course the talk is all about where they may or may not go.

I've noticed that very educated parents seem to be planning their child's education, expecting them to go to a grammar school or ruling out other schools for not being academic enough etc.

I'm also educated ( masters degree etc ) and I had good grades at school but I'm not assuming my children are going to be like me and I would rather assume that I want them to be in the nicest environment for them, rather than the most academic one to start with.

My child is 4. So it's hard to tell how it will go for him. I want to see, if he's academically gifted and a grammar school or an ultra competitive school is for him, it will become clear. But I'm not planning my choices from primary school, assuming he'll be a genius.

I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong. In fact I'm starting to think I'm wrong because all the parents I speak to, seem to be planning for their children to go to grammar school / highly competitive schools already. Maybe I have the wrong attitude ? I just don't want my child to be under all this pressure from us. Just because we were reasonably academic, doesn't mean he'll be too. Or do you ' make a child academic '?

I assumed my DC would be at the very least above average academically (my DH and I both went to university and I passed the 11 plus). We moved to an area with a good primary and secondary school that were easy to get in as long as you lived in the right area.
Our plan worked, our DC made some lovely friends, did well at school and went on to good universities.

Yes, but people have different 'highest hopes,' surely?

Sending a child to private school is not much to do with them being 'super bright'. Most children who attend selective schools are not especially bright, and certainly not geniuses (just because genius is pretty rare, and 'ordinarily bright, just a shade over average' is quite common). However, private schools get far better results than state. What you are buying is the sort of teaching and intensive attention that gives your child a lift, and lots of people will pay for that - perhaps especially if they can convince themselves it's all been about innate intelligence all along.

What is much harder is when you have a child - however 'bright' or 'nor bright' they are - who isn't coping in mainstream school. It could be you have a genius who can't manage state school (or who is bored stiff there). It could be you have a child who will never be the least bit academic, and doesn't fit in.

Although it doesn't seem that way on Mumsnet, I think the deciding factor for the majority of people is location of school.

Grammars and privates just aren't available to everybody.

Not available to the vast majority @Flamingogirl08

We don't live in a grammar area but there are two fee paying schools in reasonable distance.

Both of us are well educated and I teach so know what to look for.

When my son was going to reception, even though we knew he was fairly bright, we chose our village primary school (state) over private/the neighbouring village's outstanding school. I preferred the nurturing, family feel to it. Our son has done brilliantly there and we have no regrets. When they are just starting, I think the right environment is very important.

He is Y5 now and very bright. We are planning on sending him to one of the private schools because the nearest state option has just gone RI and I didn't like it when we went to open eve.

Ultimately, it's worth remembering that you can't buy brains!

Ultimately, it's worth remembering that you can't buy brains!

You totally can buy what looks is, for all intents and purposes, exactly equivalent to brains, though.

It's really obvious.

Unless you genuinely believe that there is an 'underclass' of people who are poor, and who are thick, and whose children are genetically destined to be thick, then you must accept that you can buy your way towards better academic results.

I know every proud parent wants to believe their child is bright because it's a genetic inheritance. But it's a form of arrogance.

I've been thinking about this after watching the What Jennifer Did documentary, regarding her relationship with her parents. You can't make an average ability child with an IQ of 100 into a genius. You can teach them that they need to be able to learn facts rote, but you can't increase their IQ and with it all of the privileges that being academically gifted can bring.

I think you start with high assumptions if you come from backgrounds when you're both pretty academic but you may adjust a you go along. DS has adhd and is young in his year so he won't even be 16 when his GCSEs finish and I'm expecting maybe a more vocational or mixed acedemic/vocational route post GCSEs might work best for him. He is generally very bright but he's liable to find exams challenging.

I don’t think thats true, IQ is very heritable but does trend towards the mean over generations. So two extremely bright people can have kids who are just moderately bright or two average people could produce a genius. I can probably provide an environment that negatively impacts my DD’s cognitive abilities but I doubt anything I do could gain her 20 points on an IQ test.

I think a very good education can maximise what natural skill you have but there is always going to be a ceiling.

I do think if the parents went to grammar and uni then it is much more likely that their kids will too.
I was the only one in my family to go to university. I just happened to be very studious and non of my sibs were. My nephew is quite bright and when he was doing GCSEs I asked my brother If he was considering uni and my SIL nearly bit my head off 'He is NOT going to uni'. She was horrified at the idea, I felt like I'd said something awful. She's always worked at Tescos and none of her friends or family went into higher education.

We are planning on sending my son to an independent school (the same price as nursery fees). He is 3.

The reasoning is to do with probability rather than hotboxing a genius.

I do not care about his career at the end just that he has tried.

It is more about chances (just a view):

1. Parents paying for education are more likely to promote it and be positive to their children's learning.
2. Scarcity of resources can not be the best learning environment (schools having to set up Amazon wish lists to cover basic resource).
3. I fear my son may be lazy. I would hate for him to fall behind or to become a teenage school refuser.

him falling behind and my hope is that a grammar may mean that there is more chance of him finishing his education being

@Isthisexpected I watched that yesterday !

All these expectations placed on children, is it right?

Even on this thread, I'm bright- my child must be too. I'm going to make my child bright.

I'm amazing so my child must be too !

It's so self indulgent. No wonder so many kids grow up with low self esteem and unhappy. They can never live up to the expectations their entitled parents have.

So many expectations ! How entitled us parents are !

How about just letting your child develop and supporting them get the best out of their strength and not making a decision about how academic they'll be, when they haven't even started school yet.

@Isthisexpected
IQ isn't static. An IQ test will give you information based on that test on that day, but it doesn't tell you what a child will be like in say 5 years. In the WISC for example there are verbal subtests, looking at vocabulary and concepts. You can absolutely increase a child's knowledge in this area through reading, conversation, exposure to museums or educational documentaries. Likewise with the fluid reasoning and visual spatial. Some aspects of IQ are more difficult to increase like processing and memory, they usually are what they are.

I would disagree. I think you could put a child from a "poor" home (and I'm not necessarily talking about in monetary terms, more along the lines of disjointed family trees, lowish aspirations, poor parental education etc) into a private school and it only be of marginal benefit.

A child from a stable but totally poverty stricken family (in financial terms), who place a high value on education will perform better in a private school.

Yes I agree.

Why are you paying for your child's education then? What is it about that school over a state school that you think will benefit your child?

According to you, you cannot tell if a 4 year old is bright, so how can you tell anything about them?

No, unlike my childhood I don’t prescribe to the whole you’re Asian not Basian. I want them to work hard, behave well and try hard, but I don’t really care what grades that then translates to as teenagers. Grammar schools aren’t a thing here, but provision for both academic and vocational education is good, so whichever route they choose they will be able to learn something that works for whatever skill set suits them.

@Dacadactyl to support my child the best possible way. The school is a really good all round school, not solely focused on academics and also I said upthread that it's the safest way to facilitate staying on in a good school for secondary.

There are other competitive independent and grammar schools in my area. But I am choosing the safest all round school.

If my child turns out to be ' very bright ', they can always go onto a more academic school later on.

For now, I'm playing it safe.

IMO by the time they're 4 you will have an inkling of their academic intelligence

No we didn't assume our dc would be clever. We are both university educated, dh got a first and I got a 2:1. We have 5 dc. Dc1 is fairly bright academically but exceptional at music. Dc2 is higher than average but not exceptional. Dc3 is about average, Dc4 has moderate learning disabilities and Dc5 is exceptional at maths but really struggles with everything else.

They all went to the local primary school, the older 3 went to the local secondary and dc1 went to the local college. Dc1 got a certificate for being voted kindest student in his year in year 11, which we are extremely proud of. Dc4 got a certificate for being a school values ambassador this week and we are extremely proud of that too. We are proud of everything they do, and my favourite thing to do is watch them being happy, which I know is a bit pathetic but never mind. I didn't expect any of them to be particularly bright, but I am proud of what they do, even when it involves me watching them play sport in the rain!

Before they've even started reception ?

How about kids that aren't particularly bright at the start of school but then excel a bit later ?

I don't think it's linear.

If we had just presumed DD wasn't all that bright when she was struggling with reading, writing and basic maths still at 6yo, let alone 4yo, we would have done her a great disservice.

She isn't a genius... but she is quite a bit above average, teamed with an intense work ethic. So despite her barriers, she is achieving.

@trainsg

I've noticed that very educated parents seem to be planning their child's education, expecting them to go to a grammar school or ruling out other schools for not being academic enough etc.

^ you're doing exactly the same. Planning and deciding that private is better for your child (for whatever reason) and that state schools aren't good enough. Why is that?

Like you said you're playing it safe. Most parents don't have that luxury. You may not have to push your child as you'll pay for their secondary education anyway, but others will have to have high expectations for their dc and push them, rightly or wrongly if they want them to get into a grammar school.

As your child gets older do you think they'll feel pressure to perform because you're paying for their education?

20 points on an IQ test is absolutely within the range of what nurture can do, yes.

Yes, most definitely before they started reception. I knew my kids were bright before they went to school, but then I was atbhome with them FT and put a lot of effort into educating them myself.