Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

@Catza

GP’s dont have time to do “comprehensive assessments” appointments are 10 mins long.

True, there is.

but what I said wasn’t in any way ableist, the word has been distorted to shut down any sort of discussion. I support disabled people.

I genuinely can't work because of ME/CFS, but I would love to be well enough to. I'd love a list of employers who are happy to pay me a living wage. I might not be able to do much and will need a place to lay down most of the time. Rishi can give me a job. I can sleep on the job just like they do in parliament.

Do you know what I get?

ESA contributions based (so not even out of the public purse, it paid out of a government insurance policy bought with my NI contributions, whilst I was working). I get £269 every two weeks.

If you want ME/CFS and £269 every two weeks, just go to the doctors and tell them your tired. See how you get on. Why work when you can live the life of riley on £134.50 per week. 😒

Talk about kicking people when they are down.

FWIW, we've been tracking the percentage of the 16-64 population who are not actively working for a long time now. It's basically unchanged. www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/economicinactivity/timeseries/lf2s/lms

There are other social factors at play though aren't there, which I suspect are more important.

I imagine far fewer women would have been economically active in 1971 than they are now as it was less common for women with young children to work. Obviously some did (my mother, for example, was working in 1971 despite having four primary aged children). There were also probably very few working women between the ages of 60-64 because most women who had worked would have retired at 60.

On the other hand in 1971 far fewer school leavers went to university and the majority probably left school at 16, so I'd expect a higher proportion of 16-21 year olds to have been economically active then (though presumably today's students who work part-time count as economically active).

You said:

It’s so strange how, in countries that don’t have such a ridiculously lax policy/funding and perks for a myriad of different “disabilities”, there aren’t anywhere near as many people claiming to be disabled

Which suggests you think a lot of people are either faking their disabilities in order to get benefits and "perks" 🙄or that their disabilities aren't real. That is classic ableist rhetoric, beloved of Daily Mail readers.

ETA: also, the fact that you stated ableism is a "made up thing" says a lot about you.

The ‘silent majority ‘ will agree with them

If a person is too unwell for any type of work then the will be assessed as that.

What do people fear about that assessment?

They are all in their local, mouthing off about how much they are raking in, whilst working cash in hand, and going off on their 10th holiday soon, dontcha know!!

And that my pedigree chums is comedy gold.

I know someone who has been on the sick for 46 years with depression. Gets a bit nervous at each assessment but blags his way through. Been to a few appeals but always win them. Transfers to state pension soon anyway.

Oh, mate. Cringing for you.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

Can you explain the assessment process as it is today?
If you could take me through it step by step that would be super helpful.

.

I’m disabled and really excited for this. It really makes life miserable not being able to work, so I’m delighted to hear there will be jobs available for me that will allow me to regularly not be able to get out of bed to go to, when I am there likely need to sleep after an hour or so, and the time I am awake do everything at snail’s pace and be constantly making mistakes and having to repeat things that I got wrong. I’d be such an asset and I expect to be head hunted very soon.

Of course there are lots of people who do that. Can't believe you would think otherwise. That doesn't mean there aren't genuinely disabled people who cannot work. It's not an either or situation.

Workhouse 21st century style just around corner. People would vote for it, because they never think it will happen to them.
Nevermind the disabled, you are one accident away.

It’s true though that there are some GPS who give out sick notes with no questions asked. We have a GP who has a long waiting list for patients who will see no-one but him, all because if they want a sick note, whether appropriate or not, they will get one.

Of course there are people who will game the system. That happens in all parts of society. But the poster I was replying to indicated that there are large numbers of people doing it and that there are disabilities that aren't "real".

Reforming sick notes is sensible BUT it’s got almost nothing to do with rise in people who are on disability benefits or out of the labour market entirely due to ill health. Remember a sick note signs you off temporarily when you HAVE a job - it doesn’t sign you on to benefits

x.com/torstenbell/status/1781222924277661793?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

On ESA in SG, support group, where you're deemed to be too ill for any work, like the guy I mentioned above, you get a form to fill in every 2 years then maybe a face-to-face assessment. These have been paused for Covid though and done on the phone instead. No idea if they still are. After so long you don't have to submit any more GP notes.

What do his patients use the fit notes (there are no sick notes now) for?

You have missed out the initial assessment for ESA, which I think is what the poster was asking about, rather than the review process.

Isn't a sick not a fit note now?

Thank you Fried - would you mind explaining how you accessed your original assessment?

I have no idea. But when you claim on income protection policies it’s a rigorous and unpleasant yet necessary process.