Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

100%

comments on this thread are insane and society is nuts. People are morphing into the dependent blobs from Wall-E

Again this is 100% correct. But no one will agree with you because it involves a degree of accountability

Thing is, they’ll do all this without offering any positive solutions alongside ie, extra funding for NHS & mental health, air filtration systems in schools & hospitals to prevent infection spread (they can obviously see the benefit of this as they quick sharp installed it in Westminster following Covid), providing a benefit system that’s based on common sense & helping people get out of the cycle ie not stripping their entire benefits for doing an extra two hours work a week. There is so much that they could do, yet like someone else said, they just punch down. Because they can.

"Some" - who those that have worked hard, not smoked, drank their money away and bought their own home and not be a burden on the hard pressed socicla housing?

Labour is, if you have a few quid saved and a pensioner then you are serious F;d

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1889653/Pensioners-Labour-Party-Rachel-Reeves-inheritance-tax-national-insurance-capital-gains-tax

I’m too unwell to exercise though. I’ve got severe long covid.

How do l take accountability for this? Just a normal person and I’ve been poleaxed by it. Can’t walk further than 10 steps after 9 months. If I push myself it gets worse.

“We’re also going to test shifting the responsibility for assessment from GPs and giving it to specialist work and health professionals”

What is he talking about. This already happens?

An 8% reduction in tax due to not paying NI is fairly sizeable though, isn't it? Until recently it was 12%.

I'm not a fan of pitting generations against each other, and I don't begrudge pensioners a penny of their pension, but they do pay less tax than working people do.

They haven’t worked any harder than people do now and a lot of their wealth is unearned via huge gains in property. Most of the wealthy elderly people I know love a drink, smoke, and all the rest of it. And in many cases the female in the couple had many years off to raise children, and only returned to work part time if at all.
I’m not knocking them, we all would’ve done the same in their position, but making out they’re inherently better people or saints is disingenuous.

Grrr, this is hot topic at work just now because we have a British contingent in our European office and it’s so demoralising. I tried to explain the notion of unpaid sick leave to colleagues and I get bemused expressions and “humans get sick, bills still need to be paid so insurances should pay a majority of your salary “.

Between Brexit, Lockdown parties, Liz Truss, a series of near monthly mini scandals, my heart goes to every average Brit just trying to do their best in the face of truly woeful politicians!

@Tracker1234 ah yes the self employed tradesmen who work cash in hand and massively underestimate their income. Know of several who rent out several houses, collect classic cars or very expensive sports hobby, holidays in Florida and yet claim to only earn £30k a year.

Agree along with @IClaudine s neighbour
The system is abused too much making the truly deserving suffer.
Theres only so much money and expertise out there and it needs to go to those that really need it.

@MissMarplesNiece Yes, that smug face. Makes me physically gag every time I see him. So smarmy and pleased with himself.

He’s a lord now as well isn’t he 😕

Well actually my health is a lot like that. I can understand why you wouldn’t believe that because it’s confusing to me.

This is literally how it is for some people. My DP is close to tears at every movement at some point in the day, every day. He still wants to pitch in with housework and will mow the lawn in the summer despite suffering for it later.

He doesn’t want to be chair bound all day watching TV and why should he? We tried that in lockdown and he was the most stiff and miserable he’d felt in years.

No employer exists that will let him wake up and see if his body works that day and let him clock in to work, or not. (This takes a good hour - just to see what’s happening in the body that day.

No business exists where this type of employee is worth having on their books.

This is something that will never be solved because there will always be liars and chancers in every sphere of life. Always have been, always will be. You can’t prove or disprove an invisible illness or mental illness without someone living alongside you to see the ins and outs of every day.

I think you misunderstand my post. I don't think all disabled people are one homogenous group at all. That's is actually my point! Some people will become disabled or ill no matter what lifestyle choices they make, like your son with T1 diabetes.

The majority though will die or become disabled by lifestyle diseases or disabilities. They will have some influence over whether they develop these conditions however there is an observable link between deprivation, structural inequalities and these conditions. My argument is that whilst the left talks about this link with a sense of inevitability, I believe that it does a disservice to the individuals involved. Most people in this country are in a position to make choices that will improve their health and longevity but many feel that it's not their responsibility to do this. It is the government's job which of course is ridiculous, unhelpful and disempowering.

I am not denying more needs to be done regarding discrimination against disabled people and structural barriers, but we also must work on reducing the number of people that become disabled and ill in the first place so that the support and resources aren't diluted to the point where it's no real help to anyone.

My neighbour? I haven't said anything about my neighbour @BrownTroutBlues ?

I think you are mixing me up with someone else.

I totally agree.

I heard a GP talk about this on the radio this morning. He seemed to be quite pro the policy, for positive reasons. Such as saving already stretched GP time from doing more form fillings they can see more patients, and helping those who can work, but just not in their current role due to a long term injury for example, back to work.

Some people seem to have confused sick notes with benefits though. This is about people who were working, but something has hapenned to their health to mean they no longer can do the job they were doing for a period of weeks or months. These are not people who have no interest in working, people with a lifelong disability (unless that disability was progressive), so any comments about benefits scroungers clearly haven't read this policy properly

The trick also of setting up multiple companies to offset tax
One whole company doing secretarial
One whole company for sweeping up
One whole company for ordering stuff

One person doing all jobs and claiming tax breaks on each company

Of friends we know
One has 53 companies, some in the Cayman Islands
One has 60 companies and his sons go straight on the books as ‘advisors’ when they’re still at school and not working for him at all.

One person should not be allowed to do this and it’s all very easy to see on Companies house. There should be an automatic stop once you reach a certain number.

I've been in the unfortunate position of managing a large team of staff whose resilience and threshold for being off sick at times was frankly staggering low

This is what needs to change more than targeting the long term sick/disabled.

I’m physically disabled and chronically unwell due to a life limiting disorder. I may die young. For now, I work, almost full time (32 hours). I am not a better or somehow more worthy person because of my employment or my salary. I am lucky to have a flexible employer and I have always worked from a home a lot, even pre pandemic. I am lucky my career choice and qualifications are not a manual job or a job where I’d need to do 12
hour shifts.

I am happy for my tax money to go towards those who cannot work. The small number of people who fraud the system are a disgrace. However, I would hate to see the genuine people suffering for the actions of a minute minority.

The problem is that all of you could become ill and disabled. Your children could become ill and disabled. Do you not understand that? I guess a lot of you have savings and feel secure but for people that don’t, how do you think those people are going to even attempt to recover when they’re going through all the stress of having no money and having to fight for benefits?

Even if you care nothing for those of us who already are disabled, don’t you want that security for your children?

Again this is 100% correct. But no one will agree with you because it involves a degree of accountability
Absolutely right.

I like to mention on such post the fact that the biggest cost to the NHS is diabetes, of which 88% is due solely to poor lifestyle choices. We are not talking millions but £14 billions. To make it clearer as many suffer with the concept of billions, £25,000 every... MINUTES.

WE as a society are killing the NHS.

I can't wait for Labour to come in, and the NHS showing no improvement, so that all those blaming everything on the government get to shut up.

Then again, as you say, they will still be unlikely to accept the truth that we are all the cause of the NHS pitfall and will manage to find a hatred organisation to blame.

This happens from within your organisation though. I work in the public sector. It is hard but not impossible. Managers need to follow the policies and procedures. I’ve seen so many let it slide.

Those 'get yourself signed off with stress' posts are almost always about taking a few weeks off work, not 'fraudulently claim thousands of pounds of benefits'. Completely different to what the Tories are proposing.