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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Not to negotiate my inheritance

109 replies

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 10:28

I need a hand hold and some advice please.My DM passed away last July after a battle with cancer. Im still grieving there isn't a day goes by that I don't think about her. I miss her so much.she was my best friend, confident and gave me unconditional love.I was blessed. We were joined at the hip.I took her to luncheon clubs, art clubs ,GP hospital appointment, shopping etc

Rewind 5 years ago and she 'gifted' me and my family a deposit for a larger house so she could move in with us.I had an extension made like a flat to accommodate her.

She took ill last February and it was down hill after that.My 2 brothers (lets call them Bill and Ben) came into ours lives after only visiting once or twice a year..

They asked about a Will and had she had made one.She had I was given 40% both Biil and Benn 30% ( I know very distasteful at this time in her life) they knew about the gift and said it was Ok. However they had the Will revised (unbeknown to mum, she agreed in the end that Ben instead of Bill and myself was executors. I was still one of the executors.

Fast forward 5 months when she had passed away and Ben couldn't wait to send it to probate.He didn't organise anything else.

Anyway legalities went through and I don't think it was what they had been planning (I think the solicitor knew what they were up to). To their dismay the 'gift' was included in the final distributions.Ben rang me and said I hadn't disclosed it. I said I had and he asked the probate manger proof or this.When received proof he suggested that I get back to her and say that I borrowed it ( the gift)He then asked probate to revalue the Will because it wasn't fair and claimed that he me and DM had had a conversation about early inheritance !!

All over Christmas he was messaging me saying he has now hired a booking ledger to look at 7 year statements (I presume he thinks I have been dipping in her account) I haven't.

It has been horendous no compassion I have been in bits.

All through this he is saying (in a very polite professional way he is just doing what an executor does) and wants to distribute the money evenly. Because I had the gift and it should be equal.

This point I am not communicating with him. Bill gets on and suggests a mediator with legal qualifications. I state I don't need one there is nothing to discuss the probate manger has confirmed twice that everything is in place and that signatures are needed.

Any way Ben won't sign the final documents and has threaten me( in a nice way) with the 7 year statements.His last message was 'no stone will go unturned' We need a mediation!'

Sorry it's so long thanks for reading I just needed to get this off my chest to see what you all think AIBU? It is effecting my wellbeing and I can't put mum to rest.

OP posts:

PropertyManager · 15/04/2024 22:26

caringcarer · 15/04/2024 22:23

Point out to him your Mum made the gift to you in her lifetime. It was not a loan. If it had been a loan you and your Mum would have signed a loan agreement. He won't find one because there isn't one because it was a gift. The fact that your Mum left you more than her 2 sons proves she wanted you to have more. I don't understand how the will could be changed without her knowing though. How could she sign it? Who were the witnesses?

It could be changed post death, but then only with the consent of all named beneficiaries all signing to say they agree with the change. So I don't think it can have been changed.

Original poster

Needafriend14 · 15/04/2024 22:39

FreeTheBeast Yes* *I have tried to put myself in their shoes many times.I wasn't 'paid' to care for her ( she wasn't ill at the time) it was her decision that we had a better comfortable life being together. She wanted me to receive 50% I disagreed.Im wrapping up now Its too upsetting thanks again everyone who has supported me thank god for Mumsnet

OP posts:

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:49

@PropertyManager

That is why I said part of the gift as that is what taper relief is. I can't remember what the percentage is after 5 years which is when gift was given.

Cornishclio · 15/04/2024 22:52

Just checked and the taper relief on 5-6 years is 60% of the IHT rate of 40% so 16% of the amount of the gift IF the estate is liable to IHT.

Maybemaybeebee · 15/04/2024 22:56

I am so sorry for your loss op. This is what happened to a friend of mine when her DM died. They had a huge family fall out and now have little to no contact with each other. My friend also looked after her mum in the last year of her life but everything was split evenly which is fair enough.
Her DB had already taken a large amount of money from the mum and, as this was seen as a gift, it meant that the rest of the children had to pay 40% IHT on what was left of the estate before it was divided up. Whereas the DB had taken more money, used up the IHT allowance and had it tax free. I wonder if it is the effect the gift to you has on the inheritance tax for the rest of the estate which they feel is unfair?
Anyway, I can only wish you the best of luck. My friend’s whole family was blown apart and at one of the worst times of her life. I think it happens to a lot of families sadly.

Pixiedust88 · 16/04/2024 17:54

Unless your mom included a “hotchpot” and equalisation clause in her will to take into consideration the gift to you and reducing the amount of your inheritance your brother is being a d*ck. YANBU

AnnieSnap · 16/04/2024 18:07

YANBU and it seems like Ben is completely overlooking that your mother gave you the money for the bigger house in order than she could live with you. Her living with you no doubt led to you being far more involved in her care than your brother’s. Make sure your Solicitor realises that. I’m sorry you are being put through this. Even previously reasonable people so often get very grabby when there is an estate with money they could get their hands on.

RavenhairedRachel · 16/04/2024 18:07

I really think your brother should take into consideration the years you cared for your mum .Put it this way if you hadn't been in a position to look after her and more so live with you then she may have ended up in residential care which could probably have eaten up all the inheritance. They should be grateful instead of coming out of the woodwork now and trying to take over.

helpfulperson · 16/04/2024 18:12

I do agree that she gifted you the money but presumably you have also or will benefit from the increase in value of your home as well?

hipposcanweartutus · 16/04/2024 18:17

really sorry you are having to go through this, it isn’t easy! Any financial gifts made within 7 years prior to the death, need to be included on the Inheritance Tax form as well as there will be an element of inheritance tax that will need to be paid from the estate. You need to get some expert advice from a Solicitor that deals with estates because I think your brothers are being complete muppets!

Lollipop81 · 16/04/2024 18:25

Block him!! People show their true colours when a loved one passed away. It has been confirmed twice everything is correct. Let him prove otherwise if he believes wrong doing. He probably wants mediation as he knows your a decent person who will give in to him if face to face.
so sorry your going through this whilst grieving your lovely mom xx

Jeannie88 · 16/04/2024 18:51

Firstly I'm so sorry for your loss, huge hugs, it's devastating I know, lost my Dad a couple of years ago. Secondly, yes it was a gift and you looked after your dear Mum while they were absent. Had they taken her in and built an extension would they be refuting it? I doubt it. It's horrible all they are bothered about is money, last thing you care about I know. Can you just take a time out on it, it's raw and other more important things to be dealing with at this time. I would feel like saying I'm not taking part in this until ... so just wait! Xx

DietrichandDiMaggio · 16/04/2024 18:55

TextureSeeker · 15/04/2024 15:10

Honestly we don't know how they feel. We don't know their relationship. How many times did the mother visit them? How often did she initiate contact? Relationships are 2 way after all. As is said here often children don't owe their parents care, especially if they haven't received it from their parent.

What are the chances the mother managed to raise 1 lovely loving daughter with a close relationship, treated the sons the same way as the daughter but both of them distanced themselves and became money grabbing dickheads?

Turning what you said around parents can't expect unconditional love from their children and expect them to show gratitude for just having them. Like I said relationships are complex, we don't know how the sons feel about the fact their mum and sister were 'joined at the hip', we don't know if the mum ever visited the sons, we don't know if any resentments might been built in childhood and grown through adulthood as the things they thought as kids were confirmed as adults. Lots of parents treat their children unequally when they are growing up and beyond, if that happens do the adult children just have to pretend they don't notice?

Show quote history

It doesn't matter if the daughter was the favourite, or not. We are all entitled to leave our assets to whomever we want, divided up however we want. There is no entitlement to anything from your parents on their death, unless they want you to have it, if they have written a will stating their wishes whilst of sound mind.

Barney60 · 16/04/2024 18:57

So sorry for your loss.
Sadly theres nothing like money to bring out the worst in people, no one will get rich from this but the solicitors!
Tell your brothers you had the money from mum to build the annexe for her to live in for the rest of her natural, how ever long that was.
The fact they hardly saw her is disgraceful.
The legals should just do what your mums wishes were n her will, end of.
I hope your brothers just let it go, they sound very bitter.

PorridgeEater · 16/04/2024 20:04

If the Will is clear, go by that.
If not, maybe a mediator can help sort it out.

LakieLady · 16/04/2024 20:08

AnnieSnap · 16/04/2024 18:07

I was going to ask if this was relevant.

That money provided the OP's DM with accommodation. Without that home, she may have had to pay for care, either in her own home or in supported accommodation, where the support charges are considerable.

Cherrysoup · 16/04/2024 20:21

Was the will officially changed? Last 4 weeks of her life? Signed, witnessed correctly?

messybutfun · 16/04/2024 20:26

Gifts up to the nil rate band of £325k will use up this nil rate band for the full 7 years. There is no taper relief. Taper relief is only available on amounts above the nil rate band.

BorgQueen · 16/04/2024 20:27

To those mentioning taper relief re IHT, it only kicks in after £325k has already been gifted.

MyTherapistSaidImAnAdult · 16/04/2024 21:59

bottomsup12 · 15/04/2024 10:36

Just to add, the time spent caring for your mother that they haven't had to pay care fees for a care home or care visitor they should count that as their gift.

The hourly rate for care is about £12 per house so tot up ALL the hours of care that you gave her (that Bill and Ben did not have to pay thank to your efforts) and then say you are entitled to extra because of that

I'm a carer who cares for people in their own homes on an hourly rate. I get between £12.50-£16 an hour depending on time of day of visit. The company I'm employed by charge families double that for my services!

OldPerson · 16/04/2024 22:15

You need legal advice. You are being bullied.

The citisen's advice bureau usually have a solicitor who comes in once a week to advise.

A lot of solicitiors offer free initial consultations - but be wary, they all want to start charging. You won't get impartial advice.

Help the Aged might offer some help.

But I imaging the cost of your house extension means it's worth getting legal advice.

Don't listen to your brothers. They would have already engaged a solicitor if they thought they had a legal case to get more money.

Just state to a solicitor that you want a legal letter instructing your brothers to back off and threatening them with legal action if they don't.

Your brothers would then have to engage solicitors to fight off any legal action. They probably can't afford it. And you have the most to lose - if your brothers are threatening to cut you out by suggesting your house extension should be cut out of your share.

supercatlady · 16/04/2024 22:30

Similar happened to us and the other executor actually forged an addendum to the Will saying it was a loan. Unfortunately they copied the signature on the original will which bore no resemblance to their signature at the time the money was gifted (we got a copy of the cheque).
it was just awful, but the rest of the family were informed and we managed to block probate being granted to them.
in hindsight we should have reported to police but it was stressful enough as it was.
it sounds like you have a solicitor involved so I’d be inclined to leave them to deal with it.
best of luck

dementedmummy · 16/04/2024 23:00

Right first things first. 5 years ago, a gift was made to you. It has first bite at the nil rate band so if it was £325k or less, there is no tax for you to pay on that gift. If it was more than £325k, then there will be inheritance tax to pay on the balance of the gift but taper relief will apply to the gift so the tax will be minimised.
Second, the will cannot be changed without your Mother's permission. It cannot be unilaterally changed by your brothers just because they don't like the terms. If it says 40% to you, that's what you get. You can sue your brother as executor if he refuses to give you your share.
Thirdly, your brother is absolutely mistaken that there is no tax to pay if the gift was a loan. It will be fully taxable and if the Will is written in the usual manner where residue bears the tax, the tax will come off the full estate not just your share putting himself at a disadvantage.
Fourthly lawyer up. A sternly worded letter from a private client lawyer ought to tell your brother you mean business and with any luck will stop him in his tracks. On this occasion you cannot afford to not lawyer up.
Lastly, I'm assuming you are in England or Wales - if not the rules may be different!

GrannyRose15 · 17/04/2024 00:23

Bumblebeeinatree · 15/04/2024 10:52

It was a gift everyone knew it was a gift and now the missing in action brothers want a share in it. I would wait and see what they try to throw at you. If you have nothing to hide they can find nothing. Probate have accepted it was a gift, if the estate is into IHT there might be some tax to pay, although well into taper relief.

Let him do his worst, I hope the estate isn't paying for his belligerence. The solicitor should be the one to investigate any suspected irregularities, can you talk to the solicitor and find out what is going on? The brother is not now doing what executors do, that was finished with probate passed, not signing off because he wants a share of your gift is not being an executor.

Your understanding of taper relief is wrong unless the whole estate is worth more than £1 million.

GrannyRose15 · 17/04/2024 00:29

messybutfun · 16/04/2024 20:26

Gifts up to the nil rate band of £325k will use up this nil rate band for the full 7 years. There is no taper relief. Taper relief is only available on amounts above the nil rate band.

That’s what I meant but I assumed a husband’s legacy and a house.

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