Does a child's mental health really improve if you take them out of school?

[MoominPyjamas]

I have absolutely no agenda in this post. My DC struggles going into school. She's refused a few times. She is always happy when I pick her up.
Someone on a SEN chat group said that I was 'abusing' her for sending her to school, knowing that she is unhappy to go in. There's a lot on these chats about school being hell and torture for ND kids, but I don't think this is the case for all.
My question is, are the related MH conditions more prevalent in ND kids less likely to occur if your child isn't in the school system? So if they're home schooled, do they become happier teens, less likely to self harm or lock themselves in their rooms? Is there research on this? I'd be fascinated to see if it was the case and whether EBSA was at all related to a tendency to struggle with your mental health in general. For example my DC has very high and low moods, so if she wasn't in school would this improve or would she always be prone to periods of low mood and then periods of elation?

It's not the only alternative though. If your child is not enrolled at school and is at least 14, there are NVQ courses that they can do which are funded by the government.

With ds2 the answer is, yes, his mental health did improve after withdrawing him from school. But his mental health in school was very bad - depressed, withdrawn and interspersed with violent meltdowns. He fared best though when we introduced home tutors and a weekend social group so whilst school totally overwhelmed him doing nothing was also not ideal. It's getting the right balance that is key. He actually seems to be faring a lot better at university than he did at school I am guessing because contact hours are a lot less and he can choose how much (or how little) contact he has with his peers.

Some do.
Depends on the child and what is making their mental health worse, also the school and how much they are willing to accommodate the child's needs.
Some children do much better in school, for example if the underlying issue is something in the home. But it's also hard to judge as lots of children "mask" in school where they don't feel safe and save up bad behaviour for where they do feel safe.

So as with all parenting there is no one answer

Thanks, id not heard of this before. Dont think this will suit our situation though-my son is incredibly academically able and he’s also very socially capable BUT this is causing problems because although in comparison to the rest of the class he’s doing ‘fine’, he is certainly underperforming for him. By A LOT in some subjects where outside of school with a tutor he’s doing work much higher than his level with ease.

He’s bored, terrified of getting anything wrong in case he’s shown up in class (to an anxiety degree), etc etc.

But because on the surface he looks like he’s fine and doing good enough the school have zero interest (nor, to be fair, real capability) to do anything more for him. And honestly if you go to a school and say “my son is really good at x subjects but you just haven’t realised” they’re just gonna roll their eyes and think you’re an idiot who thinks their kid is a genius. I don’t think my son is a genius - I know he could and should be truly excelling but he’s being dragged down by being at school where they cater to the group and where he’s got anxiety around learning and they can’t help with that due to staffing etc.

i know that some form of education outside school, even if it was only one or two days a week, would be great but I have to work.

he has had some mental health problems as I say and mild neurodivergence but luckily is generally doing well and certainly not at a level any plan would need to be put in place.

Yes exactly. It certainly is a lifesaver for some people, for others it feels a bit of a lifestyle choice and almost a stealth brag about how flexible and progressive your lifestyle is (and by implication how rich you are).

EOTAS via an EHCP is only for those where it is inappropriate for the provision to take place in a school. Beyond that being academically able and social doesn’t stop EOTAS being suitable. The school seeing the child as ‘fine’ (when they aren’t really) also doesn’t stop it, although parents often have to appeal. You don’t need the school to agree.

I deregistered my son 13 a year ago this month, autistic, severe ocd and mental health. In our case school were very supportive with his SEN but it just didn't work, couldn't cope and he was in burnout. It was 100% the right decision for us, it's taken a whole year of unschooling and finally he is getting better, with a lot of support from us.

I agree with other comments regarding home educating, it is not an easy step at all and it's a big decision to take, the "not fine in school" group is good but I have also seen the wrong kind of comments on there. The HEFA(home education for all) group I've found is the best most informative group for how to do it if you seriously want to.

Regarding socialising, we have found some (definately not all, a few of the cliquey types mentioned by a pp ) home Ed families not understanding of autistic/neurodivergent children (the ones with no SEN kids) and it's been difficult socialising a few times when we have tried meet ups, but we have also met new home Ed friends who are also neurodiverse so we stick to meeting familes with SEN now, but my son is just happy learning life skills and education his own way, following his interests and that's all I'm bothered about.

I think it depends on the individual. DS is autistic and struggled massively with mainstream school to the point that he would throw up each morning. I eventually pulled him out and homeschooled him whilst waiting for a place in a SEN school (took 2 years to sort it all out with an EHCP).
He was a lot happier in himself and has thrived in a SEN school.

It won't be like that for everyone though. It might be worth keeping a mood diary for your daughter and see how it differs between term time and holidays?

EOTAS via an EHCP is only for those where it is inappropriate for the provision to take place in a school.

Yes, it's actually very difficult to get EOTAS because of a high court judgement from the 00s. It can be done but it almost always takes a tribunal and evidence that the child cannot learn in groups of any size.

I homeschooled one out of my five dc.
For him, it absolutely saved his life, no exaggeration. He was miserable, depressed, starting to self harm, and getting into very dangerous situations because he hated school so much.
Now, he has a good job on good money, his own home, is progressing his career, but most importantly, is alive!
I actually said at one point (while battling the opinions of the rest of the family) that I didn't care if he never left his room again, as long as he was safe.
It depends on the child, and how/if you can manage to get them out of school, but for us, it worked.

It often takes an appeal to get EOTAS via an EHCP. EOTAS is only for when it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school/college, but if that applies it isn’t very difficult to get. A growing number of DC receive EOTAS.

evidence that the child cannot learn in groups of any size.

This isn’t the case. The legal threshold for EOTAS as set out in s61 CAFA 2014 is that it is inappropriate for the provision to be delivered in a school or college. Some DC with EOTAS still learn in groups otherwise than at schools e.g. at APs.

I gave my child a long break after he was being severely bullied and not coping. We changed schools after that but he ended up having a few months out. He is now attending regularly, it's a smaller school with a different teaching style and shorter days. So the short answer is, it depends on the child. But a break definitely did him good - he's put on weight, he's happier and more confident. He also started an after school sport which has given him something he's good at.

Like other posters have said, it really depends on the child. It’s not abuse to send your child somewhere they don’t like. As a parent you need to judge what’s best in your situation, which is not always easy and you won’t always get it right.

My own situation is that my DD always hated going into school. We did what we thought was right and did everything we could just to get her there. It gradually got worse over the years and this school year her anxiety got so severe that she refused to leave the house for anything.

She had a couple of weeks off school and we stopped forcing her in. She’s on a reduced timetable now. She really wants to be able to go full time but she just can’t cope with it. Not forcing the situation and not going full time has made a big difference. She still gets anxious but no where near as extreme. We’ve recently had an autism diagnosis which explains a lot.

I’m not sure where we go from here or if she’ll ever be able to go back full time. I’m lucky that I work from home and school do send work for her but homeschooling isn’t something we can realistically do.
We’re going to just keep trying different adjustments to see what helps and try not to put pressure on her. She’s going into year 6 next year and so I’m hoping we can find a good balance before she starts secondary school.

I found advice fairly limited, I don’t think there’s a magic solution. You’ve just got to keep trying your best, as you probably already are.

My kid has flourished in home schooling. It has been lovely to watch her become more carefree and excited about life in general. She also seems to find it easier to focus on the lessons without the distractions of a large classroom. She has a friend group out of school that she spends time with and has become more social in general

School isn't hell and torture for all ND and SEN children. DS2 loved it ( bloody good special schools then accommodating mainstream)! I suggest your sample is skewed. Also that people talking about "abuse" in this context need to shut the hell up when talking about children they don't know...

This isn’t the case. The legal threshold for EOTAS as set out in s61 CAFA 2014 is that it is inappropriate for the provision to be delivered in a school or college. Some DC with EOTAS still learn in groups otherwise than at schools e.g. at APs.

In practice, this is not something that the LA will agree to though and at the least an educational psychologist would need to have written a report which says that the child's needs cannot be met in a school for it to hold weight at an appeal.

That is my experience, and my LA is very controlling. They certainly don't like paying for provision that they don't directly control.

I'm not saying it's impossible because it is but all I'm saying is that it usually takes a fight.

Which is exactly why I said it often takes an appeal. When you appeal it isn’t the LA making the decision. Evidence it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school is needed, but that evidence may come from a professional other than an EP. Although many do have EP evidence of that as well.

EOTAS doesn’t always mean the LA doesn’t directly control the provision either.

I am someone that struggled with mental health all through secondary school, sometimes I felt the need to take the day off however without doubt I felt worse on that day as I felt when going back in would be a scary, everyone looking at me etc. I am also a teacher now and from my experience children who take time off for anxiety or depression actually get worse if it’s regular time off as school then becomes something to worry about but also time spent at home you just ruminate but also routine is so so important for good mental health. You then get problems with school refusal. I also think being with friends is good for your mental health but also facing your fears too. I actually struggle the most during summer holidays as my routine has gone. This is just my personal experience I hope this helps.

@Headfirstintothewild I know it isn't the LA making the decision. I wanted to point out that it's not an easy process and usually requires a solicitor. It also usually requires independent reports because LA staff will say that the child should be in school. That was my experience. We won our tribunal but it was an ordeal for me.

usually requires a solicitor

Parents don’t need a solicitor for Tribunal. Independent reports, mostly yes, but solicitors aren’t essential. More than possible to have an appeal upheld without.

My experience… DS2 is ND was struggling a lot and was always a school
refuser. Things got really bad post Covid and I couldn’t get him in at all. I really tried! There were other things at play though. He lost his nan, grandad and a close friend to suicide when he was 14. He just fell apart.
Looking back I tried too hard for too long and believe his MH was made worse by this. His MH improved a lot when I finally decided to remove him from school.

I dont know how schools are now but i can say my own mental health improved overnight when my son walked out of school years ago.
Worst days of my life were school and for my child.
Hated it always have always will.

All depends on how complex the appeal is and how tribunal savvy the LA are. Reports are very expensive. The last time we instructed someone for a report was 2014ish and that cost over £1k.

It really doesn’t. Parents don’t need to spend ££££ on a solicitor for Tribunal.

We’ll agree to differ. I’ve had 3 tribunals so I don’t think my opinion about it should be dismissed out of hand.