Does a child's mental health really improve if you take them out of school?

[MoominPyjamas]

I have absolutely no agenda in this post. My DC struggles going into school. She's refused a few times. She is always happy when I pick her up.
Someone on a SEN chat group said that I was 'abusing' her for sending her to school, knowing that she is unhappy to go in. There's a lot on these chats about school being hell and torture for ND kids, but I don't think this is the case for all.
My question is, are the related MH conditions more prevalent in ND kids less likely to occur if your child isn't in the school system? So if they're home schooled, do they become happier teens, less likely to self harm or lock themselves in their rooms? Is there research on this? I'd be fascinated to see if it was the case and whether EBSA was at all related to a tendency to struggle with your mental health in general. For example my DC has very high and low moods, so if she wasn't in school would this improve or would she always be prone to periods of low mood and then periods of elation?

School is not right for every child - it just isn't. Society is brainwashed to feel that if children don't go to school, you are failing them as a parent. I would disagree.

As a ND person myself, I had years of trauma at school being bullied because I was different. My parents moved me to a girls school where I was much happier. But private schools can be quite pressured so that's not always the answer either.

I have a ND 15 year old whom I took out of school when she was 13. She wasn't being bullied but she would get herself into a terrible state, worried about things in her environment like the fire alarm and the sheer volume of students. She is now enrolled in an NVQ equestrian course at the yard where she rides and she has never been happier. She's brilliant at riding and has blossomed since starting this course.

@MoominPyjamas sorry your DD is having such a hard time - the short answer to your question is that removing your DD from school may improve her MH, it may make her MH worse, or it might not affect it at all (possibly by improving it in some ways, and making it worse in others, so balancing it out).
Ignore anyone who accuses you of not doing the best for your child though, just because something worked (or didn't) for them does not mean it will be the same for you and your DD.

The fact that she is 3 academic years behind shows that the school is failing to meet her needs. I hear this all the time about ND children who start school, clearly very able children and end up years behind because the school environment and teaching approaches are wrong for them. It makes me angry.

And @MoominPyjamas it certainly isn't your fault - it's the fault of this government and teachers who refuse to think outside the box.

Legally you do not have to wait for an ed pysc. Your council
are pulling a fast one.

Dd’s EHCP assessment started on 21st October. We had EahVP issued by 22md Dec. Saw (fantastic) Ed pysch on 1st Dec.

@Thepeopleversuswork oh I agree completely. Plus the whole difference between individual family's situations. I would need to give up work, we would need to move, my other child wouldn't be able to stay at his school. Would that equally not have an impact on her wellbeing?

Indeed. It must be incredibly tough for people in your situation. I have profound sympathy and don't want to minimise this at all. But I do feel a lot of rhetoric that roughly translates as "school is bad and you are abusing your kids by not removing them" is heavy handed and a bit cultish.

I have spoken about my DC who was a school refuser, all the way through their primary years. Pretty much, every single day, there was a degree of push-back, about going into school. Some days a gentle, on your way, was enough but other days, I had to take DC through the office with someone to take an upset DC. I tried every technique (going to Breakfast Club being the best option), but I didn't let my DC stay at home when they refused.

They are now at secondary and are thriving. They also have two friends, from school who are refusers one is home-schooled and the other barely makes 2 days a week. I am worried about contagion. I have worked so hard to build resiliance in my DC which IS paying off now...not sure what to think about it all tbh.

this resonates with me.

One of my daughters had a terrible time in year 9 with school refusal. Lots of daily negotiations/arguments about her going/not going and nightly “I feel sick” complaints. I still don’t really know what happened but it was shit. She’s not autistic but she is intense at times,

There was psychology involvement (we live in Aus, so easier to access, perhaps) but she refused to engage. In retrospect it was maybe just a whole heap of teen stuff all at once (skin, friends, decisions about competitive sport etc). Seeing a dermatologist was helpful because once her skin cleared she seemed happier. I’m biased, but she was/is a very conventionally attractive girl and it’s possible that her skin deteriorating affected her more than I thought.

Anyway, two years on and she’s great. Loves school, engaged with everything, happy to go. She’s also very bright and her school has experienced maths and physics teachers who are well beyond what I could manage now (or ever, to be honest). Through the school she’s pursuing doing her first year of uni physics early.

A few years ago she was so unhappy about going and it was such a battle that I did consider home Ed but I’m pleased we didn’t pursue it.

I took my son out of school when he was 9. He was diagnosed with autism and adhd at 8, after several years of "all kids do that, all kids are obsessed with things" (lamp posts though?) by teachers and SENCOs. Then when he was finally diagnosed they promised various things to help him which never materialised. Then he was bullied and the main bullies got the whole class to join in, even his only friend. Also staff at the school kept leaving, so he'd get used to a teacher only for them to leave, finally culminating in a brand new TA taking the class. He took it very personally that all these teachers were "leaving him" and I had tears at bedtime as well as meltdowns on leaving school every day because he'd been holding it all in all day.

Once I took him out the meltdowns virtually stopped, he stopped anxiously chewing his clothes to bits and he made new friends almost immediately among the home ed community.

He's 16 now and at college and getting on really well doing a subject he's been interested in since he was young, also doing stuff outside of college and volunteering.

It's definitely made a huge difference to his mental health and I'm glad I was able to home educate him - I know not everyone has that choice.

I'm also not anti school as my other kids have thrived in school.

My son still has mental health issues having been removed from a type of school that wasnt working.

First because the 'wrong school' did cause trauma for him and trauma doesnt just turn off the second you are out of a situation. Thats not how it works.

But also its fair to say even if he had been in the right environment from day one, he would have still had mental health issues arising from anxiety, which is part of hid ASD. It's just that these wouldn't triggered by school itself. It's not possible to aim for perfection, so having one more area that isnt contributing to poor mental health is a win.

I do think that there is a key point just before esba starts when a lot of pupils could be supported really well in school, as they will be giving warning signs, but they get missed. i think by the time esba has really set in, its very hard to address.

So I guess the problem is, your child who's struggling in school could find school easier over time, but if you pull them out then you'll never know if that would happen or not. I have tried to vocalise these on SEN chat groups but it never goes well and gets shut down.

Definitely big fat YES.
My daughters suffered MH at school.. one began self harming.. other would throw herself down the stairs hoping to break a leg so she would have to go in.. this is 25 plus years ago.. l took them out n what an improvement.. they did their GCSE's and both got 7.
Four Grandsons all ASD.. .. school was awful for them.. masking at school.. every home time mental health meltdown..
Daughters took them out home educated.. one at UNI.. one at college.. two still be home educated.. mental health improved 100%.
Happy happy kids..
P.S. home education is sitting at the table doing school work every day.. it can meeting up with home Ed groups.
Visiting museums and libraries etc .
Walking in nature and collecting things then finding out all about them.
Cooking/ baking.
Going swimming etc .

A really big percentage of these children at least in the group I'm in are autistic (or suspected but not yet diagnosed). I have an autistic child who's doing relatively well and has lots of friends in a small independent school which has an autism specialism. She definitely wouldn't have managed in our local comprehensive. She would be happy to be home educated but it wasn't my first choice for her for a number of reasons so we tried school first. So IMO it depends on the school and the child - there are good schools out there for autistic children but not enough, and definitely not enough in the state sector either specialist or mainstream.

I realise I didn't answer your original question - yes I think MH improves but I think it could improve with the right school placement for many of these children too.

Surely it depends on why they weren't happy in school in the first place as well as what are you doing instead of school?

There's such a huge variety within that there can be no quick and easy answer.

My DS is in year 11 at the moment.

Primary school was ok at times, difficult at others but he got through without too much of a negative impact.

Year 7 was difficult, lockdown was a relief and really improved his MH.

Year 8 was again hard, lockdown have some temporary relief. Going back for the remainder of year 8 broke him.
Year 9 he started a specialist independent school. He’s unrecognisable to the child he was in year 7. About to sit GCSEs and coping well.

Home Ed wouldn’t have worked for us because DS needs the distinction between home and school when it comes to learning. Mainstream broke him. The right school has improved his MH.

I think the answer to that question is very personal.

But what about school or the child would change that would make them struggle less over time.

If you have a clear idea that they will start this medication, this play therapist is starting to see progress and these things that were difficult about school are going to be adapted - you might think its worth supporting through a rough patch.

If you feel that there is no change on the horizon, you might feel differently about whether you can just ride it out and hope it spontaneously gets easier through some inner grit.

A child could get better but usuallY big changes need to be made such as a change of placement.

It's insane to call school a ''prison''.

Much better for kids to learn how to deal with their peers- DS hated school, but as an adult, says it enabled him to deal with adult bullies {of which there are plenty} and just deal with people generally.

Being stuck at home it's far too easy to descend into navel gazing and self obsession- a schoolfriend was taken out of school years ago, and it made her become more and more insular - she became totally dependent on her mum- she used to be a Grammar school pupil before that , but lost so much confidence being at home, and learned to duck out of stuff she didn't want to do.

How do you afford this though? It sounds lovely and I’d love to do this but how? And even if you had no work responsibilities, you’d have to have money to afford all the clubs? Is it not just a luxury only stay at home parents whose partners have deep pockets can afford?

If school is inappropriate, you could look at EOTAS rather than EHE. That way the LA retains responsibility for funding the provision and cannot compel parents to organise, facilitate or deliver the provision. EOTAS can fund far more (including therapies) than the vast majority of parents can if they EHE.

Well ND children often have ND parents. And we can be a bit black & white.

Clearly, there are lots of advantages to school. With an EHCP, your daughter could be a much happier child.

How do you afford this though? It sounds lovely and I’d love to do this but how? And even if you had no work responsibilities, you’d have to have money to afford all the clubs? Is it not just a luxury only stay at home parents whose partners have deep pockets can afford?

This is one of the issues I have with the HE community. This advice to "just let them go be in nature" is trotted out so blithely as if it were as simple as that. In reality its a vanishingly small number of families who can facilitate this. It requires a SAHP who can totally focus on this.

I understand that many families reach the point where this is the only solution but it really it is a last ditch solution which in reality will require most people radically reorganise their lives/sell their homes/quit their jobs. Even taking a month out to "be in nature" or "be in museums" is out of reach for most families. But the way its presented as just another "option" is so irritatingly complacent.

@Thepeopleversuswork and therefore the underlying part of this message is that if you don't or can't home educate then you either don't love your children enough or are too poor to do so.