to think the Carer's Allowance scandal shows the uncaringness of the DWP

[cakeorwine]

In a nutshell - if you get Carer's Allowance, you are supposed to only claim it if you earn below a certain amount. If you go over that amount, you can't claim it.

If you go over that amount and don't tell the DWP, you have to pay it back. But say you went over by 30 p. you would have to pay back not 30p but ALL of it.

The DWP know if you have earnt over the amount. But they don't tell you. They let it build up. And then prosecute you.

‘They’re heartless’: how one woman fell victim to the carer’s allowance trap | Carers | The Guardian

"On weekends when her daughter stays with her father, Moon worked part-time at Tesco earning £9.50 an hour. This would comfortably keep her under the earnings threshold of £127 a week at the time, especially when deducting allowances for fuel and pension payments – or so she thought.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) contacted Moon in 2019 to say she had breached the earnings limit and would need to pay back every penny – or she would be taken to court.
Moon, terrified, contacted Citizens Advice for help. It analysed her payslips going back to July 2016, when she started work at Tesco, and found that – even on the strictest understanding of the DWP’s rules – she had exceeded the earnings limit by about £3 most of those weeks. Some weeks it was as little as 50p over.
She appealed for clemency but the DWP refused to budge. It refused her offer to pay back the amount she was not entitled to – about £800 over the course of three and a half years.
Instead, she would have to pay back every penny of carer’s allowance over that period – known as the DWP’s “cliff edge”. It amounted to £11,292.75 – plus an additional £50 civil penalty."

And the DWP response:

“Claimants have a responsibility to inform DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could impact their award, and it is right that we recover taxpayers’ money when this has not occurred.”

Agree with all this.
Pre dcs i was a home support worker for Age Concern (as it was then). I've seen first hand the significant mental and physical toll taken on women - and in the case of every client i had it was either the daughter, daughter in law and in one case a sister - who took on caring for a relative, in whatever shape or form was needed. They were generally women in their 40s/50s with their own children and work responsibilities - both of which often went on the back burner.

Caring often isn't a nice 9-5, 5 days a week number. It's evenings, weekends, nights, often heavy, dirty work (frequent bed/clothing changes due to incontinence etc) - one lady I knew barely slept as her mum with dementia frequently wandered and securing overnight care support was difficult.

Our social care system is on its knees. Accessing and, crucially, keeping external help is very difficult. So these women plough on, working hours and in conditions that no 'proper' paid employee would tolerate, out of love and necessity, saving the country in social care/NHS costs millions as they do so. And now they're being prosecuted over pennies?

Frankly, fuck that and fuck the DWP.

Does who work? You or the person you are claiming carer's allowance for? That's a common mistake for example.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

Even were it deliberate fraud, it seems extremely punitive compared to the punishments for MP's found to have defrauded the public purse, or the Banks for laundering money etc.

They don’t care about carers
if was was the only benefit not to get a increase this April every other benefit went up with inflation apart from carers allowance 🙈

they also class it as a taxable income in every way but then have diff rules regarding things like other benefits.
carers has always been dedicated 1.00 for 1.00 of your other benefits but other taxable income your allowed to earn a certain amount before deductions.

from that post what also Is horrible is she wouldn’t have getting full carers allowance anyway as she would have been on some other form of benefits meaning it was already deducted from her overall payment.

I thought it did go up with inflation by 6.7% from from £76.75 to £81.90 (it's still an absolute pittance though and disgraceful that it's supposed to replace a wage)

Its increased by £5.15 / week
Yes its ,not loads but don't state things that are not true.

We were specifically told that it was not increasing the only thing increasing was the amount you were allowed to earn to claim not the amount you receive. If I was told wrong then I apologise but that’s the info as carers we received. I will see when ours come in on Monday

CA has increased for 24/25.

The reason CA is deducted £ for £ from UC rather than subject to the earnings taper is because it is classed as unearned income. It isn’t about it being taxable or not. Some other forms of taxable income is also classed as unearned income, too.

I have re checked and it is going up so I apologise but the initial announcement did say it wouldn’t be but the amount you were allowed to earn would increase
I am glad they are increasing it.

Yes but see that’s the thing so they get it in one hand and out the other it’s not classed as earned income - fair enough but most of those families are saving the government a lot of money in care costs.
so it increases by 5.00 something and then most will have it deducted anyway 🙈

I agree, many do save the state a fortune, but your post was about it being taxable yet deducted £ for £. I was explaining it isn’t about it being taxable. Some other taxable income is also deducted £ for £.

@Headfirstintothewild i do find the UC carers element fairer, than the old system.

but only if the person obviously can claim UC

It does even it out slightly

when I was on full benefits ( daughter severely disabled ) on the old system

you would get
carers allowance and then it deducted from your income support.

where as now it still gets deducted from UC but there is also a UC carers element so it evens it out slightly more.

The cost of care is huge
we now get 50 hours funded and that costs 4.5 k a month but most don’t have this.
so now I know I can work when the carers are with daughter but it costs the state 4.5 k a month.

Hi

I've heard bits about this but find it hard to understand
Therefore, in simple English, when someone gets the CA - the condtions attached to it that you have to read and agree - what do they say re max hours worked and max earnings and what is your responsibility?

NB: To be absolutely clear, I am not having a go at anyone but want to be clear as when I worked, I was never a benefits advisor but i knew bits about carers allowance and it me it felt unfair, EG if you were retired and a carer for a disabled OH, you got zero as a carer I think if mem serves me well. Then there was something re max hours you could work - possibly all changed a si left work about ten yrs ago aged just over 50

It's only that simple if you don't work or earn under the threshold. I can only assume you don't work.

I earned above for years but due to my pension contributions and childcare fees fell under the threshold. My childcare fees would vary so I had to fill in complicated spreadsheets every months and got my CA in arrears several weeks after it was due. I am financially pretty clued up. I can totally understand how others in a similar situation struggle and things slip through. Sone of us just cannot survive on CA and need to earn as close to the threshold as possible. the system is a total mess. I found it all too stressful that I stopped claiming it altogether as I have a job but only earn a bit above (potentially, with pension contributions I would fall under the threshold) but I am just too stressed and worried about a 'fraudulent' claim.

It’s not hours worked but how much you can earn a week which I then obviously effects the amount of hours you can work

but it doesn’t make much sense because someone who is on minimum wage can work more hours then say someone on a higher paid role so it doesn’t really match hours earned.

the increase in how much you can earn has gone up with minimum wage.

Income support has a carer premium.

It is not about how many hours you work. Earnings are also not cut and dried because it is earnings after tax, NI and certain expenses, which means it isn’t always simple to work out and expenses can be disallowed after thousands of pounds of overpayments have already built up.

For a child on high rate disability the UC system is 100 percent better off
it just evens it out more.
we never received incoke support carers premium so maybe I was robbed there 😂😂
I’m not on either anymore but when I switched to UC from the old system I was over 100.00 better off in terms of the carers and disability payments.

I worked for the DWP in covid after doing my 3 businesses in the shitshow that was. A more lazy unintelligent crowd of woke twits I never had the misfortune to be amongst. I did the best for my claimants but sadly most work coaches not do much terrible situations

I said carer premium. Not disability premium.

It isn’t as cut and dried as saying someone with a child on HRC is better off on UC. That doesn’t apply to all (discounting TP).

The earning limit for carer’s allowance has not gone up in line with minimum wage

Thanks, you mean "not simple to work out" if you are on PAYE and get a pay slip every week/month?

Or are you talking solely re self-employed who can take expesnes etc and have to manage their own income status?

it is going up my point being that
when minimum wage was going up and the carers allowance allowance not it made mistakes like this happen because those who were working minimum wage and hours that matched the allowance but then minimum wage increase the same wage would take them over
they are now increasing the amount you can earn as from April which will help with that situation.

I wrote that yesterday already. I don't think this is the real scandal around CA.

The low pay is and it is a real shame that the Guardian (who writes articles about those poor souls on 60k who struggle to survive these days) didn't pick that one.

You need to care for 35h at least (most of use do far more). That works out at 2.34 per hours. It's the lowest weekly benefit in the UK. We don't get sick pay, no holiday, no pension, no nothing. It should be paid at least at NNW for the 35h. How on earth is anyone supposed to survive in Carers Allowance? It's an incredibly hard role and we bring so many sacrifices. Why is there no outcry how carers are treated in this country? How can we possibly be on with it as a society?

We have just switched over ,my son gets HRC and HRM ,we have had a few teething problems though ,so I can't say yet whether we will be better off under UC or tax credits .