to think the Carer's Allowance scandal shows the uncaringness of the DWP

[cakeorwine]

In a nutshell - if you get Carer's Allowance, you are supposed to only claim it if you earn below a certain amount. If you go over that amount, you can't claim it.

If you go over that amount and don't tell the DWP, you have to pay it back. But say you went over by 30 p. you would have to pay back not 30p but ALL of it.

The DWP know if you have earnt over the amount. But they don't tell you. They let it build up. And then prosecute you.

‘They’re heartless’: how one woman fell victim to the carer’s allowance trap | Carers | The Guardian

"On weekends when her daughter stays with her father, Moon worked part-time at Tesco earning £9.50 an hour. This would comfortably keep her under the earnings threshold of £127 a week at the time, especially when deducting allowances for fuel and pension payments – or so she thought.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) contacted Moon in 2019 to say she had breached the earnings limit and would need to pay back every penny – or she would be taken to court.
Moon, terrified, contacted Citizens Advice for help. It analysed her payslips going back to July 2016, when she started work at Tesco, and found that – even on the strictest understanding of the DWP’s rules – she had exceeded the earnings limit by about £3 most of those weeks. Some weeks it was as little as 50p over.
She appealed for clemency but the DWP refused to budge. It refused her offer to pay back the amount she was not entitled to – about £800 over the course of three and a half years.
Instead, she would have to pay back every penny of carer’s allowance over that period – known as the DWP’s “cliff edge”. It amounted to £11,292.75 – plus an additional £50 civil penalty."

And the DWP response:

“Claimants have a responsibility to inform DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could impact their award, and it is right that we recover taxpayers’ money when this has not occurred.”

In most cases in the post office scandal ,they didn't actually owe anything it was the fault of Horizon,and the post office knew there was a problem but prosecuted anyway

Considering there are notification systems and that these weren't used to fpag up overpayments the moment they occurred, this is on the DWP. These carers are saving the state a fortune. The way they are being treated is a scandal and you should be ashamed of yourself for lumping them in with actual criminals.

@cakeorwine do you really believe that DWP staff implementing these rules have any sort of power to change them? Carers Allowance rules are massively complicated but they're made by senior civil servants and politicians. DWP staff are free to speak up of course but they won't be listened to, I have no idea why you would think that "rule-makers" would listen to a benefits processor.

Unless you are suggesting that carers are not very intelligent ,surely they should be aware of what they earning every month ,if it builds up because they are consistently going over their earnings limit ,than the onus is on them to do something about it.

I didn't say change things.

I said "Speak up"

"I have no idea why you would think that "rule-makers" would listen to a benefits processor."

If someone is telling you that there is a potential issue that could blow up - as it is now - maybe you should listen?

And if this scandal has been going on for years and DWP staff have known about it for years, why is it only coming to public light now?

The thing that makes me so cross about this is that as a carer I’ve had to move mountains to find a job that works around my caring responsibilities.
One that’s flexible enough that I can attend hospital appointments, but steady enough I can count on the income.

Those jobs are like hens teeth.

So it’s incredibly difficult to keep on top of the amount you earn to the fucking penny as well.

If it would just taper?

It’s a scandal kicking the people no-one cares about? Who cares about carers?

Well given I am a carer who receives CA, no I am not saying that.

People make mistakes. People might think that going 30p over the earnings limit now and again is not a big deal and won't result in the loss of hundreds of pounds of benefit.

Also, being a carer is hard and often exhausting. Finding the headspace to keep on top of everything is not easy. Burnout is a real thing.
Eta:
the onus is on them to do something about it

But as DWP have the information too, it should be acted on earlier.

It is not always as clear cut as you make out. It is earnings after tax, NI and expenses. That includes 50% of pension contributions, equipment for your job, some travel costs, and some business costs. If you have to pay for someone to care for the person you care for or your DC, certain caring expenses can also be deducted. Some have been caught out because expenses have been disallowed.

I have been a carer for 16+ years (for dd), the rules around carers allowance have made my life pretty tricky, I am single parent who wants to work self employed but it’s been pretty impossible. For a while I was working 8 hours a week but was over the limit for earnings, though some weeks I would earn nothing and others £10 over the limit, they would not let me average it out over the month as I was getting paid weekly, so if I went over by £10 one week they would stop my carers allowance all together. Eventually I took out a pension as they took half of what I paid in off what I was earning and this took me under the threshold on the weeks I was over. Eventually I had to give up work as I couldn’t afford to live working under the threshold and if I went slightly over I was even more worse off. I want to work, I can’t work many hours as dd is home a lot and needs 24 hour care.I think it’s very unfair that someone is providing such a level of care for someone yet because they work a few hours and are earning over the threshold they don’t get carers, they are still providing the care and at the same level?

Nobody bloody cares about us. Some of the attitudes on this thread illustrates that.

Sorry, eta that lots of people on this thread do care, but some have no idea how hard it is. And the government doesn't give a toss about us.

Yes i m well aware being a carer is hard I am also a carer claiming carer,s allowance ,but people need to take responsibility for themselves ,knowingly going over the limit irresponsible.

Yanbu. I knew it was bad, but I didn't realise it was this bad.
Caring and supporting an ill family member is all consuming. I'm organised at work but drop many balls at home.

@cakeorwine DWP staff have spoken up for years - they are not listened to. Earnings restrictions while claiming benefits are not new, it's out in the public domain and has been for years also. No they're not fair or reasonable but staff have zero power to change it whether they speak up or not. Directing your anger to DWP will change nothing. Your MP might although that's a long shot obviously.

Sorry messed up. Will try again!

Well, @x2boys I am do not like seeing my fellow carers hounded and prosecuted because they have gone a few quid over the earnings limit and DWP have not done anything for years about it.

As pp set out, to be able to properly navigate the system you almost need to be an accountant.

But these are not 'honest mistakes' that's the point. The only cases prosecuted are those that have been overpaid over a long period of time, so haven't just failed to declare work once, but over and over again every time there's been a review. The question on the form is bloody clear, do you work yes or no.

See my earlier posts - I was earning under the limit , however the DWP made adjustments based on me paying into a pension- which I did not - so their adjustment made me over the earnings limit , even though I was earning under the limit !

Again - see my posts.

We are providing the correct information.

The system is poorly designed and poorly implemented.

The problem isn't DWP staff, the problem is the way it's managed - and that nasty, persecution culture comes from the top. It's Conservative Party policy, not the under paid over stressed benefits staff. And while people continue to vote for them, and the Daily Mail is perceived as representative of popular opinion, they will only get worse.

It's not about are you working yes or no - people have submitted that they are working, believed they are below threshold but DWP accounting has calculated it differently. That's not fraud that's systemic error being allowed to accumulate massive debts leading to prosecution. By no stretch of the imagination is that fair or about "lack of responsibility " on the claimant's part.

This is about right for the dwp. They are abominable.

That may apply to some, but not all. Some are because expenses have been disallowed but only after thousands of pounds worth of overpayments had been made.