To bring your attention to the Carers Benefit fraud scandal?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

Don't know if anyone here might be affected by this, but in the wake if the Post Office scandal it's yet another example of lack of institutional accountability and disproportionate official responses that decimate the lives of ordinary people.

AIBU?? Yes

No im not

What's the point...

Typical mumsnet

Well that was an interesting contribution to the debate @HelloMiss

It's a stupid, shitty system.

Not dismissing the fact that carer's allowance is pitiful & in no way compensates for loss of earnings the government does make clear how much you can earn before you lose the benefit. On the other hand we have been fed a lot of false information over the years with respect to our eligibility to carers allowance by well meaning social workers etc so maybe educating them might be a first step to make sure over-claiming does not occur.

It's made very clear that there is a threshold before you're not entitled any more. And it's mentioned at every renewal.

The issue is not the same. These people claimed carers allowance when not eligible. Claiming benefits when you earn too much isn't right

It is well known exactly how much you can earn on carers allowance.
But I do think the allowance on how much you can earn and how much you get in carers should be higher.
I care for 3 people and obviously only allowed one lot of carers allowance.
I love the people I care for but I know I am saving the government 1000s and have had to give up my life and mental health to do so.
Not like I can go home after a 9 hour shift its 24/7.

Fully agree.

In addition, the cliff edge is a bad idea anyway, especially in a society where we don't have enough workers. Obviously a lot of carers can't work at all, but some are able to (I say this as someone who would qualify for CA but doesn't claim it due to working).

And yet we've come up with a system where we miss out on their skills and labour because computer says no. Unfair and idiotic.

It’s a shame the conversation couldn’t be around how bloody awful carers allowance amount is. They get £81.90 per week for caring for someone at least 35 hours per week. That’s £2.34 an hour!

In our case that means hoisting from bed - wheelchair - changing bench etc, giving medication/food/hydration through a feed tube in his stomach, giving oxygen and managing seizures …..the list goes on.

But it’s ok, if that’s not enough to live on, the carer can earn £151 a week (that means working 13 hours at minimum wage). And who is going to look after the disabled person whilst they’re at work?

There will always be stories of benefit fraud somewhere. It’s just a shame that most people know nothing about carers allowance or the lives carers live so when they read these stories, they just think ALL carers are benefit scum.

This is not the same as the Post Office scandal. In that, people knew the system was faulty and carried on prosecuting anyway. Victims were entirely innocent because they had not taken the money they were accused of stealing. They couldn't have done the right thing and not been prosecuted.

In this benefits example, the onus is on the claimant to ensure they only claim what is allowed. It's up to them to only apply if they meet the conditions, it's up to them to inform the relevant agency if they earn more than they are allowed. YES it's stupid there isn't a system in place to prevent people claiming what they are not entitled to and YES it's a bit heartless to pursue someone who was caring for a relative for tens of thousands for an honest mistake. But it was the claimant's mistake.

For once I have a little sympathy for the government here. Don't go after fraudulent claims, get criticised, go after people who claimed what they shouldn't have... get criticised!

I wouldn't wait tbh. Believe it or not, it's not an easy benefit to sack off ime. I'd give them a ring telling them the date you'll be over the threshold. Make a note of the date and time you informed them.

Yes this is key
Overpayment flagged on DWP system
Claimant not notified as a matter of course
Overpayment accrues

Very poor.

It is. It is a farcically low amount, they stop you earning much and they put in a cliff edge. I’m not sure they could make it any less unfriendly.

It can be claimed by those on very low incomes (full time carers by necessity) but also those on high household incomes like myself. I frankly could work, but life is better all round if I devote myself solely to my caring duties plus having a life of my own. Those in the middle who have to somehow work miss out massively. The system should allow everyone to care properly and be recompensed sufficiently. Work, where it makes sense, should be possible.

In the past I have claimed means-tested benefits. I am thankful that now we get DLA and carers we, as a family, are far, far from being eligible for means-tested benefits, but I really can’t begin to appreciate the result of combining the stress involved in a situation where you are eligible for means-tested benefits with the stress involved in being a carer for someone eligible for mid-rate DLA/PIP. Hats off to anyone in that situation.

@IClaudine

Debate!!?

😂 it's only MUMSNET!

They can stop and start Uc based on wages for the month. Why does it take them years for carers allowance?

I don’t agree with the £151 a week earnings cap for carers. They’re not eligible to claim anything else so a few extra hours work makes a difference to them. Carers allowance is a pittance compared to the cost of paid care

Absolutely this. A friend is in this position and struggling to work as well as looking after 2 elderly parents. He lost his job and his home due to caring responsibilities. Now lives with parents who are being leaned on by SS to go into care (they don't want to) and sell their home to pay fees. SS could not care less about him. He keeps working (self employed/part time) because carer's allowance is a pittance and the house is not in his name. He will probably collapse with a heart attack in the end.

It was his social worker who suggest he apply for carer's allowance instead of his son receiving disability allowances, because money paid directly to his son was going directly to his drugs dealers.

DWP have since accepted he made a genuine mistake and have said that in writing to him.

DWP are now paying him several times the amount of the carers allowance in housing and sickness benefit. Their decisions have cost the taxpayer money.

Carers' allowance has a "cliff edge", in that being only £1 over the earnings limit causes you to lose the entire allowance. A pay increase of £1 a week would leave you worse off by the entire amount of the carers' allowance - this is an allowance which is paid only if you are working at least 35 hours a week caring for someone.

I am a carer for my severely disabled child. I also work 12 hours per week for the NHS. I have read the overpayment articles and find it hugely concerning. Not only do I have to manage on an absolute pittance, and provide care for my child of at least 50 hours a week, but now I get to worry about whether I have worked an hour or two over my contracted hours in the past.
Instead of the DWP writing to me about this, it's like they're springing a trap for Carers, the lowest paid and in my opinion lowest valued in society.
I am under a great deal of pressure from my employers to work additional hours, but as I now earn the princely sum of £146 per week I have to inform them time and again that if I work that extra hour or two I lose my ENTIRE CA payment. So I would actually be losing money.
It is an outdated and unfit for purpose payment system.

Couldn't agree more.

One person rang the government helpline and was told she didn't need to declare her part time earnings.

The DWP has access to PAYE - it's how they got on to these people in the first place. But instead of doing this in a timely fashion, they allowed the situation to carry on for years, so that people who have very little money to begin with are left with debts that cause them to lose their house if they have one, or face prison time if not.

We're not talking about people on a decent income setting out to defraud the country, we're talking about people on very little income (else they wouldn't have been awarded carer's allowance in the first place) going over the limit by a few pounds. People who are being run ragged by caring - you only have to dip into the Elderly parents thread to realise the toll that caring can take. In one case, the person was forced to sell their house, leaving him with £6000. He fell into depression, and is now being supported by DWP to the tune of £1000 a month - far more than the carer's allowance. No way can you spin this as being good for the taxpayer.

To get carer,s allowance though he would have to be caring for someone who was in receipt of disability payments ,so surely his son would still have been receiving PIP in his own right?

No, these people claimed carers allowance when they were eligible.

Their earnings then went above the limit usually by a tiny amount, and when they themselves were being run ragged by caring for someone else for at least 35 hours a week - a full time job on top of any paid work they were doing. In most cases this is not deliberate fraud.

Carer's allowance fraudulent claims rate is 3%, 0.1% below JSA.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2022-to-2023-estimates/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-ending-fye-2023

He was, but for whatever reason the son was giving it to drug dealers.

I have a friend who gets caught in this ridiculous trap regularly. His wife is a teacher and the main earner. He does one night shift a week during term time (as can only cope with one night of not sleeping a week) and could work a few more during the holidays but each time he does, he loses his CA and has to re-start the claim.

He is fretting about a potential work bonus that he might get of £50 which will wipe out his CA.