To bring your attention to the Carers Benefit fraud scandal?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

Don't know if anyone here might be affected by this, but in the wake if the Post Office scandal it's yet another example of lack of institutional accountability and disproportionate official responses that decimate the lives of ordinary people.

Bump.

Bump.

The father says that he claimed carers allowance so that he could give it to his son as a daily allowance …. That’s not what it’s for . CA is for the carer. The son would still have received his own benefits in order for the father to be eligible for CA.

Whilst I disagree with DWP wanting the full amount of CA back , rather than just the overpaid amount ….. benefit fraud is not something that should be ignored either .

The father had the financial savvy to buy and sell his own property but claims he didn’t understand the earnings rule when claiming the carers allowance . Sounds a bit far fetched to me .

Well there speaks someone with little understanding of the stresses and strains of the system and how it fails people.

There's another story out there that might tickle your empathy bone. I'll find it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/07/dwp-carer-allowance-benefit-payment-case

Whilst I disagree with DWP wanting the full amount of CA back , rather than just the overpaid amount ….. benefit fraud is not something that should be ignored either.

With CA there isn't a 'just the overpaid amount' as if you go 1p over the earnings limit you forfeit the whole amount of CA for that week.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/07/unpaid-carers-allowance-payment-prosecution-earnings-rules

Further reading.

As @Scampuss says, it's not about clawing back an overpayment as with most benefits, it's forfeiting the whole lot with no checks or balances.

OP you seem to not want to hear differing opinions to yours so I will bow out now .

But yes I do understand the system , being a carer myself . So don’t be too quick to judge .

I agree. Also I’m dubious about the claim that he “ticked the wrong box”. In any event he wasn’t entitled to the benefit and it’s right he pays it back

I receive Carers Allowance as I care full time for my son, recently my husband and I opened our own business, we will pay ourselves a wage, I know what I earn will be above threshold so before my first official payday I will be informing the DWP to stop paying the benefit. It's actually quite a complex system but some of these people are either incredibly naive, poorly informed or trying to be a tiny bit cheeky.

Fine. All carers are stupid, naive or scam artists.

I stand corrected.

I'll bow out too.

Your point can’t have been very strong if you’re prepared to bow out that quickly OP!

It’s a bit far fetched to try and claim this is in any way similar to the post office scandal. The people involved in that didn’t make any mistakes and desperately tried to solve the problems they were given, the person in your first link made a big mistake and ignored the letters reminding them to check.

While it is right that they pay back the money they wrongly claimed, it does seem harsh that it couldn’t have been paid back over time meaning that he would have kept his home.

Why dont they dump them in prison? The carers will probably enjoy the break and social services can get their arses in gear and provide some actual support!

I specifically used the word proportionate to highlight this aspect.

Unpaid carers are under a huge amount of stress and the system is designed to put off claimants.

Getting help in advocates to help deal with it all is nigh on impossible.

I think sell your home or go to prison is disproportionate to the alleged crime and as pointed out has pillaged the public purse for a far greater sum.

I think that's a strong enough point.

Did you see the article about 50 million benefit fraud the other day?

So many take the piss, that’s the problem. People who are full time self employed, but claiming to care for someone and when questioned there’s no response and claims get cancelled.

The amount you get for GENUINELY caring for someone and giving up your life to do so is not enough. There should be more support, more carers, I’m not sure it should fall to one person to provide that care. I certainly wouldn’t want to do it, I admire those who selflessly do give up their lives to care, wash, dress, feed and monitor their loved ones.
I’ve done it for a few weeks (diagnosis until death).

I'm a carer and claim carer,s allowance they make it abundantly clear how much you can earn whilst claiming carers allowance, you also have to declare it when claiming, tax/ universal credit ,so i find it hard to beleive he ticked the wrong box.

I think the main problem is the cliff edge that means if you earn 1p over the earnings limit you lose the whole lot.

Tapering might help, but that would make it more costly to administer. I think CA should either be non-means tested like PIP or the earnings limit should be much higher.

I am not sure about the cab driver bloke, tbh. His story is a bit convoluted. But DWP should not have been able to force him to sell his house-can they do that? Why didn't they just put a charge on the property?

But there are plenty of other examples of DWP being far too draconian.

Yeah, I think the Guardian should have looked into that story a bit more, it doesn't quite add up to me. There are plenty of clearer cases where DWP has overreached.

So many take the piss, that’s the problem. People who are full time self employed, but claiming to care for someone and when questioned there’s no response and claims get cancelled

Any stats on fraud and CA to back up this statement? I don't think the fraud rate is that high, same with disability benefits.

I applied for (and was awarded) Carers Allowance in November as I am a carer for my elderly mother.

It does explicitly say the maximum amount you can earn weekly in the supporting notes on application and in the documents received with the award notification (and how to contact them if your earnings fall outside the maximum amount, or on any change of circumstances that may affect the allowance.

It is a little naive not to understand that you are using your own NI number for your application, and also is a reference ID on your tax reference, so of course it’s not rocket science to assume that they can randomly check (or have threshold notification) if a carer is earning - and paying tax and NI on those earnings - whilst in receipt of the benefit.

I do agree that if a threshold violation has been reached, or is within a nominal amount of being reached, the Carer should be notified and warned.

I do have sympathy for anyone who claims Carers Allowance (because it’s a derisory amount, and the cost savings from full time Social Care budgets are probably well into the tens or hundreds of thousands a year per person needing care).

Frankly, it’s bloody shit. I’ve had to mothball a successful business to stay under threshold, and for an effective 50+ hr week of care I provide is less than someone on minimum wage earns (gross) for an 8hr day.

Thank fuck I have a DH on a good salary to cover the short fall.

Maybe if this or successive governments actually paid a fair allowance for carers (even minimum wage would be a blessing) then the temptation not to commit fraud would be eradicated.

There is absolutely no good will or grace in the system for those who aren’t claiming the wrong thing, so it doesn’t surprise me that they insisted on one big payment.

I got a fine once because I went away for a week and forgot to declare it before I went.
When I got back I remembered so I contacted them with the dates (this was probably 2-3 weeks after I should have done it)- I got an enormous (to me) fine.

I did point out that I could have not told them at all and they never would have known, not to mention that I had accrued several weeks ‘holiday allowance’ so I hadn’t actually been paid ANY money I wasn’t entitled to but they weren’t interested in that.

I’m sure I’ve read that the amount of benefits that could be paid out but aren’t because people don’t know or aren’t t able to claim them far exceeds the amount of benefit fraud.

The carers allowance form is one of the shorter and easier forms to complete, but it still requires a certain knowledge of the system and literacy.

The issue here is that there is complete reliance on possibly highly over-whelmed, stressed, claimants with varying levels of understanding of the system and literacy levels providing complete accuracy of information on a form which some may find inaccessible. The second issue is that issues with incorrect information are not brought to light, in some cases, until a point when claimants owe vast sums of money despite the government having access to all the relevant information much earlier on. I don’t think this is acceptable, especially when dealing with vulnerable families who frankly may barely have space to think as a result of their caring duties.

I’m sure there are people who abuse the system. One of the claimants in that Guardian article sounded like he and his son were poorly informed more than anything though. There were other courses of action he could have taken to stop his son handing over all his money to drug dealers other than stopping his son’s benefits, like having his son’s benefits paid to him instead.

I think one of the issues is that DWP have the information that a carer's earnings have exceeded the limit, but don't act on it sometimes for years, so the overpayment stacks up.