Gender assigned at birth

[Ketchup100]

Just applied for dd’s 11+ and the online form asked what was my child’s “gender assigned at birth”. AIBU to find this insulting both to my intelligence and to my daughter? She was not assigned a gender at birth. She is biologically female whether or not she chooses to currently follow any particular gender stereotype. Nobody said at her birth “congratulations, your child will like pink and wear makeup”. They simply looked at her genitals and declared that she was (biologically) female, which she is and will always be.

You are right. We should give the word gender a separate meaning from sex.
But google up sex reveal parties... nothing. It is all under gender reveal.
I think that is where they got the wrong version from.
Most forms I fill in are sex, gender, does your gender match your birth sex?.. or something of the sort.
It is a pain to fill up all these stupid forms. I am getting tired of them, to be honest.

Tried that but with online forms they add the helpful little * that means you can't submit the form unless you complete the box. Then, in my case, you have to contact HR and tell them that you are unable to complete their form because their question is stupid. You then get offered a meeting with the multinational company providing the service that requires the information/form. You agree to meet but the discussions leave them confused and bewildered and then you receive an apology for the form not meeting your 'requirements' BUT they also state that the form can't be changed. We have reached an impasse with neither of us willing to back down. I am old and don't give a fuck so we may be stuck for some time.

Do many kids fill in their own 11plus application forms?

I was about to say the same. It must be completed by a parent. These kids are currently 9/10.

@eurochick you'd be a medical miracle if you’re as old as some of the stuff I read 😁

While this might not answer your specific question, it does show that there is potentially harmful side effects here I mentioned before about puberty blockers and male patients. So, while it was well known about the impacts on the female body, this study shows that even in male patients this is a rather harmful group of drugs that is certainly not 'reversible' or 'safe' as so many activists insisted.

Here is an article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13276501/Mayo-Clinic-puberty-blockers-trans-kids-fertility-cancer-medicine.html

Here is the study.

Puberty Blocker and Aging Impact on Testicular Cell States and Function

Varshini Murugesh, Megan Ritting, Salem Salem, Syed Mohammed Musheer Aalam, Joaquin Garcia, Asma J Chattha, Yulian Zhao, David JHF Knapp, Guruprasad Kalthur, Candace F Granberg, Nagarajan Kannan

March 27, 2024.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.03.23.586441v1.full

Abstract

Spermatogonial stem cell (SSC) acquisition of meiotogenetic state during puberty to produce genetically diverse gametes is blocked by drugs collectively referred as ‘puberty blocker’ (PB). Investigating the impact of PB on juvenile SSC state and function is challenging due to limited tissue access and clinical data. Herein, we report largest clinically annotated juvenile testicular biorepository with all children with gender dysphoria on chronic PB treatment highlighting shift in pediatric patient demography in US. At the tissue level, we report mild-to-severe sex gland atrophy in PB treated children. We developed most extensive integrated single-cell RNA dataset to date (>100K single cells; 25 patients), merging both public and novel (52 month PB-treated) datasets, alongside innovative computational approach tailed for germ cells and evaluated the impact of PB and aging on SSC. We report novel constitutional ranges for each testicular cell type across the entire age spectrum, distinct effects of treatments on prepubertal vs adult SSC, presence of spermatogenic epithelial cells exhibiting post-meiotic-state, irrespective of age, puberty status, or PB treatment. Further, we defined distinct effects of PB and aging on testicular cell lineage composition, and SSC meiotogenetic state and function. Using single cell data from prepubertal and young adult, we were able to accurately predict sexual maturity based both on overall cell type proportions, as well as on gene expression patterns within each major cell type. Applying these models to a PB-treated patient that they appeared pre-pubertal across the entire tissue. This combined with the noted gland atrophy and abnormalities from the histology data raise a potential concern regarding the complete ’reversibility’ and reproductive fitness of SSC. The biorepository, data, and research approach presented in this study provide unique opportunity to explore the impact of PB on testicular reproductive health.

Here is some details on the bone density issue.

Bone Health in the Transgender Population
Published online 2019 Jul 2.

Micol S. Rothman and Sean J. Iwamoto

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

This

Also unknown are the long-term effects of puberty blockade, the effect of changes in body composition and the optimal type, timing, dosage, and route of administration of GAHT for bone outcomes.

Conclusion
The results of the studies that reported impact on the critical outcomes of gender dysphoria and mental health (depression, anger and anxiety), and the important outcomes of body image and psychosocial impact (global and psychosocial functioning), in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria are of very low certainty using modified GRADE. They suggest little change with GnRH analogues from baseline to follow-up.

And

GnRH analogues are frequently employed to provide puberty blockade in adolescents with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria. From their use in other medical conditions such as prostate cancer, their deleterious effects on the bone are well known, although these have the potential to be reversible if treatments are stopped or add back therapies can be given

And

However, Z-scores in the trans boys also showed an expected drop during GnRHa treatment. Similarly, they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline

Meaning, the authors acknowledge little is known about the lasting effects of puberty blockers. In this study, they propose some positive effect from cross sex hormones for females but ths results show that it doesn’t really make up the loss from puberty blockers.

PLUS

Just adding this piece about bone density for young transitioners here:

segm.org/the_effect_of_puberty_blockers_on_the_accrual_of_bone_mass

1st May 2021

Dr Michael Biggs (an advisor to SEGM) has been calling for the release of data from the Tavistock’s experiment since 2019. A subset of the data were finally released following the judicial review into puberty suppression at the Tavistock clinic. Biggs’ reanalysis has just been published in the Journal of Paediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism. It finds that after two years on GnRHa, the Z-scores for a significant minority of the children had declined to a level that should trigger clinical concern.

They ask your sex for single sex schools. Clue is in the name.

was there the option to say "none of your business as this has nothing to do with taking an exam"??

Fucking lunacy

When I took my kids to the GP for covid jab, I crossed out "gender assigned at birth" and added "sex observed at birth". Wholly unimpressed at seeing gender woo used in the place of biological sex in a medical setting.

😴😴

@LunaandLily this gender nonsense when it should be sex is tiresome isn't it! Glad so many people are seeing it for what it is.

If the person called Sarah or Annabelle is trans then they'll mark 'female' when they're actually male though, won't they? Or they might not. This obfuscation of language makes statistics meaningless.

And if we have no statistics, how do we know how many maternity beds or smear tests or primary school places or measles vaccines or care home spaces or Urdu interpreters or disability accessible public toilets we need?

This is not about feelings, it's about facts, and facts have meaning and purpose.

YANBU, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Now might be a good time to put in a complaint given that the final Cass Review is being published tomorrow and it is expected to recommend no social transitioning of children and no medical transition for under 25s.

nothingcomestonothing
Sorry really really tired so I may be thinking of this wrong but if they’re Sarah and say ‘male’ was their allocated at birth then the statisticians know the exact story surely? That’s the fact?

I agree OP, it's gone nuts 😵‍💫

Even if you can argue that you can change your gender (ie. your role in society and societal norms, clothing, pronouns etc) you can still never change your sex.

In almost every human birth, baby is either born male or they are born female. Whether they like football, Barbie, video games, the colour pink, short hair or wearing dresses, it's all utterly irrelevant to their sex.

Wearing make up does not automatically mean you need swear tests and having short hair doesn't mean you're at risk of testicular cancer. Sometimes, people don't give a shit about your pronouns, they just gotta know the damn sex they're dealing with!

No. Because their legal name might be Sarah but they be physically male. Or their legal name might be Sarah and they be physically female but want to identify as male. Or their legal name might be Jim but they call themselves Sarah and they are physically male. Etc etc etc. No one is assigned anything at birth, there is no 'fact' related to that phrase because the phrase itself is a lie.

Plus obviously statisticians don't cross reference your name with what 'gender' you mark down and make assumptions about you from that, the point of statistics is having clear unambiguous information so no one has to make assumptions or second guess.

Plus you are assuming that statisticians would be able to guess your 'gender' from your name. What if your name is Riley, what sex shall they guess you are? What if the statistician doesn't know whether Rajani is a male or female name?

The point of statistics is that they are factually correct. They can never be factually correct if the question asked is factually incorrect.

@nothingcomestonothing

" The point of statistics is that they are factually correct. They can never be factually correct if the question asked is factually incorrect. "

Absolutely!

I agree, nobody uses name and “gender assigned at birth” to guess what gender they might currently identify as. There are so many names (especially foreign) that are ambiguous as to sex/gender. Sam for example. What they needed to ask was “biological sex of child” and that is all they need to know unless single sex school have become single gender schools.

I wonder how the Cass report today will start to impact the use of these terms in relation to children.

She has used ‘Registered at birth’. I think this will upset many people who believe sex is spectrum and who like to leverage people’s medical disorders to destabilise the categorisation of sex.

Full report linked here.

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/CassReview_Final.pdf

A summary is here. But there are many summaries around.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1777834145470693643.html

Language is very important OP as you have said. Dr Cass is very clear that language can have long term impact on children by locking them into a pathway that they would have likely not followed had they felt pressured to remain in (even celebrated in some cases).

And no surprise, Puberty blockers show no evidence of being ‘safe’ for this usage.

@Helleofabore "birth registered" is much better terminology, isn't it? I hope the NHS and DfE start to adopt it.

You can see the mysoginy in this. Transmens welfare is completely ignored in all of this because, well, the trans activists know full well they are women so they don’t matter.

I have skin in the game. I work in a women’s prison. In England so no transwomen in my prison at present. But it currently holds many
transmen as is common in the female estates. Staff refer to them as him / he and use their chosen name. But they still maintain their sex based rights because at the moment, they are still legally recognised as women. It would be utterly terrifying and dangerous if those protections were removed and they were sent to a male establishment.

I’ll let you guess how many of them actually want to have their gender identity rights over and above their sex based rights when it comes to allocating their place.

I am more accepting of it.

I find that it is quite remarkable how many people who want to give away the sexed based rights of female people tend to ignore that fact. That female trans people still need the protections feminists are campaigning for.

Just like most of the male trans posters who tell us all about their demands always forget the female trans people.

Are trans men overrepresented in the prison population?

Given that something like 5% of prisoners are female, I would expect the absolute number of trans men in the prison population to be small.