Accidentally asked DD why she couldn't be more like her friend

[GiViMi]

Where to begin - I feel like I'm living in some teen drama show!!

DD is 17, in sixth form, she previously went to an 3-16 independent school and we had few issues there. It was small, she had 4 close friends. There was an aspect of underage drinking and broken curfews but school work was always done, DD was generally respectful and her friends were lovely people. For sixth form that group seems to have split, 2 have gone boarding, zero contact with them it seems. One has gone to a state sixth form then DD and her closest friend are at 2 different independent schools. DD decided she wanted to try an all girls school, I hated the idea but I felt she was old enough to decide. She is still close with the other girl who did similar.

Lately DD has been a nightmare, she'd turned into a real stereotype if I'm honest (bitchy, mean and judgemental), she has no care for her school work anymore, seems obsessed with boys, mean to other girls you name it. Also had a run in with drugs (which is seemingly rampant among these girls!) which I've managed to nip in the bud but it's relentless. She is cruel to her brother and half-sister, talks back to everyone it's truly non-stop.

Tonight it all came to a head, after breaking curfew last night, stealing money out her dads wallet (not together anymore but he passed the message on), returning back to her dads extremely drunk having told us she was with her old friend. It was made clear that until schools are back - she is not leaving the house, no phone access, she can study.

Well DD absolutely lashed out, saying we are cruel and everyone her age is drinking, we never give her enough money and so on. DS decided it would be a good time to mention her new found reputation as a bully too!
I didn't mean to but I inadvertently said, well not everyone, C (old friend from old school) isn't doing it is she! This caused DD to break down and tell me, C doesn't have to, she's pretty and smart and kind to everyone and above all of this and people just respect her naturally, and when she was at school with her she benefited from that respect. Now she's on her own she has two choices act like everyone else or be left out.
I told her at 17, she should focus on being friends with C, keep her head down and keep quiet at school. Before long she will be off to uni, none of these girls will be relevant and hopefully she will be mature enough to realise that part of the reason C is above all this is because she doesn't care about what anyone else thinks, I know for a fact people have tried to drag her into all the drama as DD told me not even a year ago everyone was talking about her because of who she'd lost her virginity to! I asked DD at the time what C was doing and she said nothing, C didn't care and that was that!! It blew over in a few days as no one was getting the satisfaction of a rise out of her!
DD is the opposite, some girl made some mean comments to DD and DD couldn't help but retaliate, the concept of "rise above it"
Is alien to DD!!
But in a genuine sense DD after going shopping or for lunch with C is a lovely girl it's when she's been around these school friends!
Now DD is distraught saying I clearly don't love her and I wish she was C and I should just send her to live with her dad all the time (we have a united front he'd say the same!).

AIBU to think that this is all a bit melodramatic and immature for 17, but to equally have no idea what to do? If it was a little underage drinking and broken curfews I could handle it, but rudeness, no effort at school, drugs, bullying and seemingly feeling a need to sleep around (and be public about it) is absolutely beyond me! I do wish she was a little more like the girl she used to be, I
Shouldn't have said I wish she was more like C but in a way it's true! I don't mean in personality but in behaviour I do!

How do I handle this?

Could you have a conversation with her about whether she wants to move schools? It sounds like she's struggling socially in her new school and acting out. Girls' schools can be very toxic

She's half way through A-levels now so I'm not sure it would be possible?

It would depend on subjects/exam boards and she might need some catch up tutoring, but an independent school may be able to accommodate (one offered to accommodate me when there was a possibility I'd have to move at a similar stage). Absolute worst-case scenario is she restarts sixth form (in a different school) in September

I don't think you've said anything wrong. As to the bullying..tell her the people she's cruel to will remember every incident for the rest of their lives.

I think you're being a bit unsympathetic tbh. She's basically told you she's doing all this from a place of insecurity ("C doesn't need to as she's smart and pretty") which is quite self aware really.

Poor thing needs her self esteem lifting.

I think you shouldn't label her (even in your own mind) as a bully and the other criticisms. Nothing she's doing is that extraordinary, it's not uncommon behaviours.

Changing school is very hard and it seems she's struggled with the transition and positioning herself within the social dynamic. I don't think changing schools yet again would necessarily help

You've said you think she's being melodramatic but in your final paragraph you've exaggerated her misdemeanours and frankly the sheer number of exclamation marks in your op is quite melodramatic too.

The drugs incident isn't great but you've said that's nipped in the bud, which hard to do so well done to her. Drinking at 17, even getting drunk, isn't uncommon. She's hardly "sleeping around" - what an awful phrase to use of your own daughter. Nothing you've described has pointed to her being a bully: I'd say others gossiping and judging her (including you...?) are also to blame.

I'd try to be less judgemental, and more sympathetic and open.

I don’t think pointing out that C doesn’t do drugs etc is saying you wish she was C, I think your DD is saying that either because she’s upset or to distract you from her behaviour by guilt tripping you. This new school sounds shit, I can’t think why she wanted to go all girls for sixth form, I’m wondering if there was a reason eg something bad happened and she thought this might feel “safer”. If so there may be something deeper underlying this behaviour. Is there no chance she Could join C’s school?

I mean she absolutely is sleeping around ... I just didn't feel the need to go into detail on that and she is being a bully, I'd know she's my DD

Your update hasn't changed my view. The way you write about your dd isn't sympathetic at all.

You've used the phrase "bitchy, mean and judgemental" which I think just about covers it.

Gossiping about her with her brother isn't going to help either.

She's vulnerable and clearly going through a very difficult time. She'll remember, her whole life, how supportive or unsupportive you're being at this time. Which do you want to be?

If I was you I'd take her out of school. She's not happy and it's not an environment that's positively influencing her. If this was a state school - you'd have no hesitation. Please look around, maybe even with her and look at other options.

Poor thing needs her self esteem lifting

Jesus Christ - she's acting like a bully, not a 'poor thing'!

I'd pull her out of that school. Whatever it offers it's clearly not a good fit for her mental health and is creating the perfect storm for acting out, lashing out, risky choices. Try to see her as struggling rather than bad/naughty etc.

I'd talk to her about a fresh start. Sounds like she really needs it.

I'd definitely move schools if it's having such an impact on her

Something very similar happened to me at 16. My periods started that year and, some months after the first one, hormones hit me like a tornado. My personality changed so much that even I could see it, despite living in the middle of it all.

The damaging factor, though, was that my parents demanded an extremely high standard in all things and my very domineering Dad gave me hell for each & every 'failure'. New Me figured I was never going to be good enough - and I stopped trying. I under-achieved at O level (GCSE) and didn't even bother turning up for all my A-levels.

Now, I'm not assuming you're a monster like my mercifully dead father. I am asking you to have a little more compassion for your daughter. She's handling a lot of changes both externally and internally. She's only 17, it's not easy! There's the new social environment to deal with, the collapse of her core friendship group, performance anxiety about A levels and what to do after, and there's the emotional maelstrom of being a teenager.

It's not great that you compared her to C but I think you can smooth that out once she's calmed down. You meant she seems more secure in herself when she's with C, right? That's a positive. It really sounds like she needs acceptance and affirmation - and I agree with PPs that this isn't coming over as your forte 😬

While I was being what my mother disparagingly called a party girl, my peer-group popularity exploded. I went instantly from being a bit of a nondescript schoolgirl to getting all the invitations. My self-confidence was appalling, actually, but nobody noticed. Please give your DD the steady, supportive cushion I didn't have.

I'm a teacher and think it's fairly typical teenage behaviour. Of course it's awful when you're dealing with it but hopefully she will come out of it on the other side, and the aim is for your relationship to still be intact.

I don't think you said anything wrong. Regardless of the underlying reasons, she's making a lot of other people miserable. 'You don't love me and wish I was C' is designed to make you stop challenging her but she must know in her heart that bullying, drugs, stealing and making her siblings' lives miserable is unacceptable.

I think you need a proper conversation when you are both calm. Approach it as wanting to help her because she's obviously unhappy. There needs to be compromise and a discussion about what you can tolerate, and what is non-negotiable. It sounds as if the new school, and new friendship group, has really unsettled her but that's not an excuse to steal from your family or bully other pupils.

Soon she will be at uni and you'll have no control at all so my focus would be on preparing for that - staying safe while drinking/drugs/sleeping around, part time job if not enough money, earning respect from others by being the sort of person people want to be around.

Hmm. I think the one thing that takes priority here is the bullying, so that’s the thing to tackle. I would really start by having a chat purely about that and nothing else, and see how DD feels about it from her point of view. Is anything going on at home? Did you go through a messy break up with your ex? My friend at sixth form started being nasty to me for no reason but she had stuff going on at home.

I also moved schools for sixth form and it was difficult to make friends. Everyone had made their own cliques.

I think you’re being a bit extreme about the drinking and late nights tbh as she is 17. We’ve all done it. And she will be doing it freely soon anyway at 18. I’m not sure grounding her is the right thing at this age, it seems a bit silly. She’s not 12.

Focus on her behaviour towards friends and siblings, tell her you love her and ask what you can do to support. Stop mentioning her amazing friend either.

You need to clamp down on the bullying. There’s no excuse for it and it’s not just a part of being a teenager.

She opened up and basically told you she has low self-esteem by telling you she thinks her friend is pretty and smart and kind to everyone and above all of this and people just respect her naturally

And rather than validate these serious feelings you dismissed them by telling her what she should do: I told her at 17, she should focus on being friends with C, keep her head down and keep quiet at school. Before long she will be off to uni, none of these girls will be relevant and hopefully she will be mature enough to realise that part of the reason C is above all this is because she doesn't care about what anyone else thinks

When you are seeking comfort and someone pushes solutions on you it can really hurt. You have given her the message that her feelings are invalid, too much, silly.

It would hurt if you poured your heart out to someone saying 'I'm having a really hard time right now' and they said 'suck it up things will be better in the future.'

Highly recommend the free In Love While Paretning app. It explains how the most profound need of all humans is to be accepted and loved for who they are. Might help you realise how deep it cut when you accidentally expressed a wish for her to be someone else.

You are obviously a doting mother, you can get through this. It will set the tone for your future relationship, she is already an adult.

https://drgabormate.com/book/hold-on-to-your-kids/

I suspect you are setting C up to be the next target of your daughter’s bullying, tbh. You would be better getting family counselling with EXH and trying to engage with DD this way. Sounds like she’s struggling and acting out in really destructive ways.

As an aside - I wouldn't knock the fact that she sometimes retaliates if someone says something to her. To me this sounds like she's assertive and will stick up for herself.

Rise above it = put up and shut up and end up a doormat.

Take her out of the school. She is obviously unhappy there and not studying.

Does she actually want to go to uni? I didn't, I was miserable in VI form, it was a complete waste of two years of my life so I may e projecting.

The money you save on fees can be used for a tutor or as someone else said she can start at a different VI form.

It wasn't an accident. The only way to repair this is to take ownership of your words

I would move her - she sounds like she’s in a toxic environment. She’s unhappy and acting out accordingly.