Pensions… again

[GoodnightAdeline]

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/08/uk-state-pensions-benefits-changes-april-triple-lock-rise

Another pension increase we can’t afford when working people are grappling with the cost of the country.

What will be the endgame in all this? Where will we be in 20 years?

I'm guessing your income is rather more than £11,500 a year?

The triple lock was brought in to try to rectify the very low pension in the UK.

It’s not just pension it’s benefits too, which a lot of people in work claim. They can’t put benefits up by the rate of inflation and not include pensions, so YABU imo

For 7 months of the last year, RPI was above 8%, peaking at 13% in March 23. In the last five months it has come down below 8%. So an 8% rise does slightly less than maintain the status quo.

Pensioners cannot go for promotion, they cannot move job, they cannot work extra hours, they have no future financial prospects, so are totally reliant on pension income.

I have no issue with the rise at all. I don't want old people freezing to death or going hungry.

No, I'm not a pensioner, not for a long time yet.

Not quite understanding what your AIBU is?

Are you annoyed that pensioners are getting an increase? Their gain isn't your loss? What are you moaning about?

My AIBU is that we are not in a financial position to be paying more to pensioners

right so im 67 still working and pay tax and i had to wait an extra six years to get my pension took 12 months off work three times in my life when i had my children so i think i have bloody well earned my pension so you can sod off

Vote for someone else if you don't like it. They have all been quite clear on their stance on the triple lock

Dfottfsofawygtfosm hth

Can you say something more about why you think this?

Where will we be in 20 years?

I hope, OP, that you ill be confidently heading towards your retirement secure in the knowledge that assertive public opinion in support of the state pension has ensured that there will still be one for you.

I have just reached state retirement age, having worked my whole life in a low paid charity sector (with a proven impact of having saved the state millions of pounds in other services costs), and for the vast majority of my working life my employers made no pension contribution - and when it became illegal not to it was at the lowest legal amount. I did start a SIPP when 'opting out' was the thing, so luckily have a tiny bit more than the £11.5K of the new pension amount to live on.

I am so frugal with heating atm but I know that in 10 years time I will need to keep my house warmer than I do now, god knows how those bills are affordable on £11.5k + £200 fuel allowance.

If the pension isn't enough to live on then people beg or die...or enter the administratively costly Pension Credit system.

It isn't pensions that are breaking this country economically and lashing out at the most vulnerable just takes our eye of the bigger issues.

It is incredibly hard for young families on average wages now - state help comes in the form of Child Benefit, free nursery hours, tax credits, etc. UC is also increasing. More free nursery hours. NI has gone down a bit (whereas tax remains the same so pensioners with private or other non state pensions have not been given a tax break).

Be careful what you wish for. Older age comes sooner than you think.

Well said

Pensioners are getting an increase the same as wages went up by (on average). So it seems fair to me.

I worked till 67 when an accident stopped my working life. I agree with you.

State pension provision is dismal and needs to be improved drastically. Any rebuilding of the country after the election will need to look at this.

But it's also true, at least in my opinion, that the triple lock is catastrophically designed and an appalling way of doing it. As it stands it completely misaligns the interests of pensioners and the rest of the country. If there is an economic crash or inflation is out of control then that's a good thing for recipients of the state pension whilst everyone else suffers. This is not really conducive to harmonious society nor sustainable in the long run.

OP, a civilised society does not allow their old people to go cold and hungry.

And it is important to point out that those old people built and paid for the universities, schools and hospitals that we all use today. They staff charities as volunteers, work unpaid on parish councils and provide huge amounts of childcare for working parents.

I see them as a much higher priority than some of the other things we spend money on.

The state pension is not much money and many people have relatively small pensions other than the state one. When older people get ill and infirm and need to live in care homes or employ a stay at home carer the costs are very high and - if they have any savings left - they are soon gone.

Of course they might not have any savings left if their investments in a private pension hadn’t been successful or if they went for equity release and threw half their savings away on that.

The economy of a nation is not like a household budget. That is Thatcherite bollocks just like the trickle down economy.

Paying more to those on benefits and pensions helps the economy because the money is spent in businesses.

The person who gets an increase in their pension can continue buying a cup of tea at the local cafe which helps keep the waitress in work, and the suppliers, and the commercial landlord who owns the premises. The cafe pays business rates to the local authority and corporation tax to the government, as do the suppliers and other linked businesses. The staff pay income tax and don't claim benefits and spend their wages and tips in other businesses.

Why should I sod off? I don’t think those in their 20s or 30s today will get a pension at all thanks to our ever stretched economy.

If you allow governments to think that, maybe. Can you explain why the rest of Europe can do way better on pensions than us? Just like they do way better in fuel prices…and pretty much everything else.

Because they have completely different economies, demographics and structures? Saying we can just copy other countries is so simplified as to be nonsense.

Where did I say copy? I said they provide a better pension. Their economies and demographics aren’t that different.
If you want there to be a living pension when you get to retirement, you need to support one now. We can easily afford it. It’s a political choice, and thankfully currently all parties agree with me (and most people on this thread) that it needs to be maintained.

If people in their 20s and 30s don't get a pension it will be because they chose to vote them out of existing - I'd suggest that's a stupid thing to do - and even more stupid would be to allow yourself to be manipulated into thinking that pensions need to go

We as one of the richest countries in the world can afford things we just don't want to - we want to live in a gambling style society where there is a chance a few people win big - but there are more economic models than the one currently in use , many more models that spread what we have more evenly, many more models where money isn't tied to false money generating scams ( like banking ) or to the destruction of the planet - money doesn't grow on trees , it's a man made concept tied to current value of activities. If you value care work you can chose your economy to pay care workers more than bankers

But we value money for moneys sake

So what do you propose? If they don't have the increase in state pension many will need top up benefits. Would you like all old people that have worked and paid into the system to just piss off and die?
Tell us how you would do it.

Have you been watching Logan's Run OP?

What do you suggest pensioners live on - dust?