To not get the hate thrown at EVs?

[EngineStart]

We have an EV. We didn’t get it for environmental reasons, we got it because I have access to an EV lease scheme via work and it was the most cost effective way for us to get a new car. I don’t think I’m morally superior for having one. It serves us well, is nice to drive, and cheaper (for us) than running a petrol car.

What I don’t get is the visceral hatred some people have for them. I understand they aren’t for everyone, there are definite logistical challenges with on-street parking and long journeys particularly. However, I expect range and logistics to improve as time goes on. I also get that some car fans might find them a bit sanitised. But I don’t really get why some people are so viciously against them?

AIBU?

If you are relying solely on sound to navigate your way then it is an issue.

But there are lots of things around that operate silently which present significant hazards. For example bikes can travel very quickly and silently and around pedestrian areas often travel at similar speeds to cars these days.

There's a happy medium between that and silence!

While there is apparently a noise generator on newer EVs I think something should have to be done about older ones as well.

If you are relying solely on sound to navigate your way then it is an issue.

I'm not but someone who is blind would be.

It's difficult to see how new techniques could be developed.

The only way to extinguish any fire is to deprive it of oxygen, fuel and heat. The problem with lithium ion batteries is that in combustion they produce their own oxygen, they contain highly flammable materials and they burn at high temperatures. Water and car fire blankets do eventually extinguish the fire, but it takes longer because of these factors.

I'm not into my car and don't especially care what I drive. An EV wouldn't work for me so I don't have one. I have no opinion on what other people should or do drive.

But what I really truly dislike are 2 things. Firstly the absolute lie that is spun of EV being environmentally friendly, or green. They aren't. And secondly, people getting uppity and acting morally superior. I'll give you a bit more of a pass if you're also vegan, never travel abroad, don't make any unnecessary journeys, don't buy anything imported and don't have children.

But to me, it's just a car. And I see plenty of shit slinging from both sides of the coin.

You could have a flatbed truck with a container on and a crane. Just drop the container over the car and then pump it full of nitrogen gas. It wouldn't be that more expensive than a fire truck I would guess. This wouldn't remove the electrolytic oxygen source but would help a lot.

Another possibility would be to help dump the energy away from the battery. I used to work in an area that required something similar, dumping huge amounts of energy in fractions of a second. You would have some sort of sacrificial resistor pack that the electrical energy could be dumped into that is remote from the battery. This would help to a degree. You could also have something to deal with the chemistry packed in between the battery cells that is released to quench the reaction (or even speed it up to get it over with) when a fire takes place.

But I think all the above is pretty moot because in 5-10 years time battery technology will be different. There will be much less chance of fires with solid state batteries. But my guess is although they will be safer, if they do catch fire they might actually be worse, certainly they will be in terms of stored energy density, if not in terms of electrolyte flammability.

This is one of the things with EVs. The tech is in its infancy and will change and develop rapidly over the next 20-30 years, both in terms of capability and safety.

Sadly You've bought into the false rhetoric that EVs are no better for the environment.

Even with the issues if lithium mining and batteries, EVs still come out better

www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/choosing/are-electric-cars-really-better-for-the-environment/

www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#:~:text=a%20gasoline%20car.-,Myth%20%232%3A%20Electric%20vehicles%20are%20worse%20for%20the%20climate%20than,even%20when%20accounting%20for%20manufacturing.

The container/ crane combo or sacrificial resistor equipment might work. But then how many of them would you need to cover the whole road network, where would they be stationed and how long would they take to get to a fire? Remembering that they would be specialist kit, not multi use like most fire appliances. The cost / benefit analysis would be interesting.

Particularly depending on how long their useful lifespan would be if battery technology does change.

My guess is that we will just have to put up with the downsides.

Well, to return to OP's original question: why the hatred of EVs?

It's become a culture war, deliberately and cynically stoked by articles in the right-wing press. Look at who owns these papers and you'll invariably find that they have interests in/ are close to people high up in the fossil fuel industry. Social media is even less regulated, so it's even easier for shady outfits in the pay of the oil companies to constantly pump out a stream of misinformation.

And it works- look how many on this thread have been regurgitating this misinformation- only to have it patiently countered with facts and citations, then ignore that and simply carry on with the same old same old 🙄.

They use some very clever, compelling arguments which appeal directly to the emotions of the credible: "The people in power are foolish and out of touch and don't know what's going on- unlike you, with your common sense". "The people in power are manipulating you for their own ends and own profits, but you're clever enough to see through that aren't you!" (this one is particularly twisted because it's true, it's just that the ones doing the manipulation in this case are the oil companies not the politicians) "Nobody cares about those working hard and struggling to get by!" etc etc etc

Oh by the way, I don't get how people can't hear the sound of EVs. They make a humming or whining noise that's perfectly loud enough- I can always hear one coming up behind me when I'm running in the lanes. Is the problem that this is drowned out by the constant rumble of ICE traffic in some places? In which case, is it EVs fault for being quiet or fossil powered vehicles' fault for being noisy?

Oh and another thing 😆

All these woeful predictions of EVs being left stranded when they're out of range/ catching fire all the time etc....

If this was true- and given that there are now quite a few EVs on the roads- surely we would be seeing an increasing number of them stranded at the side of the road every time we go on a long journey? Can't say that's something I've noticed.....

For anybody that's interested, the Guardian have recently done a series of EV mythbusting articles.

I have a company car and the EV options are much cheaper for the BIK and I would have one if I could but as I don’t have parking outside my home (or nearby) where I could charge I can only get a Hybrid model. The EV would save me £160 a month on BIK and £100 year on my parking permit so I would take one just for the savings if nothing else. But I can’t have one as I can’t charge at home

Not really. Mine cost around the same as an equivalent ice vehicle and has a range of around 350 miles. I'm charging overnight for 7.5p per kwh so its costing me around 2p per mile to run and saving me around £45 per week in fuel

Not really. Mine cost around the same as an equivalent ice vehicle and has a range of around 350 miles. I'm charging overnight for 7.5p per kwh so its costing me around 2p per mile to run and saving me around £45 per week in fuel

Not really. Mine cost around the same as an equivalent ice vehicle and has a range of around 350 miles. I'm charging overnight for 7.5p per kwh so its costing me around 2p per mile to run and saving me around £45 per week in fuel

Prime example of what I was talking about.

I didn't say they aren't environmentally better or greener. I said they aren't green and they aren't good for the environment.

Why to fucking god can people just not stop themselves from preaching at others?

How much did yours cost, though?

I have a 2nd hand Hyundai that cost me just under 4k. It's petrol and can do 430 miles to a tank. I have to fill it up once a month, give or take and it only has 55k miles on the clock.

I had a quick look on AutoTrader and could find one car in the whole country for less than 4k that had a range of more than 150 miles. It's older than my car, has twice as many miles on the clock, has more previous owners and only has a range of 153 miles per charge.

It makes no sense for me to switch at this point. I can't afford to spend thousands of pounds on a new car, nor can I afford hundreds of pounds to lease one.

Mine cost around the same as an equivalent ice vehicle and has a range of around 350 miles.
My ICE car cost £5K 11 years ago and has a range of 500 miles on a tank of fuel. My budget for replacement is currently zero, but is unlikely to be more than £5k. There is simply nothing comparable. And just in case someone comes on to tell me I only do short journeys, once a fortnight I do a 360 mile round trip that is made totally impractical by train by the fact of having to go in and out of London. I'd gladly do that by Tesla or similar as soon as you can find me one for £5k.

Yes same here unfortunately. My car cost 4.5k about 5 years ago might be a bit more. Its 14 years old. Its automatic so not as good as a manual for mileage but I can get 380 out of a tank, a smidge more if its all motorway driving and Im careful.

My budget will again be about 4, perhaps 5/6k for the next car. I run them into the ground and then buy a used car with high(ish) mileage. Mines now done 140k. Its got years left in it yet.

What is a ‘choral’ noise? Do they sing like an ACTUAL CHOIR? In which case, I’m in 🤣

I live in a town with rows and rows of small terraces. If you can park within 200m of your own home you’re lucky. I haven’t come across one person who has come up with a solution for this that’s actually workable - and there are millions of us across the UK who live like this. Until anyone can help with that problem I can’t see how they can work.

"Until anyone can help with that problem I can’t see how they can work."

It's like, you will need to drive them to a charging station in the same way people drive ICE cars to petrol stations ?

Mine sings the Hallelujah Chorus when approaching a pedestrian crossing.

The on-street parking point is the biggest logistical issue. Until recently we had on street parking but luckily we’re very well served by public chargers - just around the corner from all car park with six chargers, chargers at every local petrol station, and charging available at work, etc.

Yes. I do think a polite cough button is required! 😊

Yes. Not mine. Mine whines. But some have a choir like sound that is quite pleasant.

My friend has this problem and when I go to see her there is a carpark at the end of the road that you can park in overnight whilst charging. We need more of these in areas where there are lots of terraced houses.

I also think any businesses with parking are in to a winner if they install a charger. They can charge rent to the charging company and attract more customers. Lots of restaurants have had my business because they happen to have a charging point. I’d never have gone to them otherwise.

It's like, you will need to drive them to a charging station in the same way people drive ICE cars to petrol stations ?

I'm in and out of a petrol station in 5 minutes usually. I know if there isn't a free pump I'll only have to wait a few minutes unlike with a charger where I could be waiting ages.

I don’t think you are far away from being able to afford an EV that can do that mileage. Ours would be around 5-7000 now. and can do 130 miles. The next model up Zoe can do considerably more. Each year the used EVs will give more range for your bucks. If you want it. You might not of course.