To think you should speak the language after living in a country for 20 years

[Eastie77Returns]

Just back from visiting a friend abroad. We met 20 years ago as young expats in the European country she still lives in. When I lived there, she didn’t speak the language at all. In fairness she was employed as a nanny for a family who only wanted her to speak English with their children. However they also offered to pay for her to take private 1-1 classes with a tutor to learn the local language. She declined as she didn’t want to ‘study’ in her spare time. I worked for a company where English was barely spoken so I was forced to learn the language and I accept that if I was in her position I may not have become as fluent as I eventually did.

However fast forward to now. She no longer works and is married with children. She still doesn’t speak the local language beyond the bare basics. I stayed at with her family and her husband (a local) and children spoke to me in their native tongue. My friend only spoke English which is fine between the two of us but she cannot speak to her MIL who was also there but doesn’t speak English. I’m a bit baffled. The local language is hard but…20 years?!!

Be honest OP I don't think you are her "friend" or vice versa - stop judging.

If she is happy and her family are content does it really matter?

I don't know how you could NOT have a decent grasp of a language after 20 years. Sad really because you would miss out on so much. I lived in another country for 8 years and learned the language just from living there, well enough that I could teach it.

Exactly! Hypocrites.

For me it feels like you often willfully have to choose not to learn, or you must not have any friends who speak the native language. It's amazing how people can get on without conversational language at least.

My mum taught English to people who'd lived in the UK for 20 years but could not even write or speak their name and address. Mostly because they were prevented from doing so by their partner or 'home' responsibilities (aka vagina tax)

I know a guy who lives in Spain, 30 years, he can't even say 'hola'!? Absolute cultural vacuum of a person as he's an educated man with no excuse. I speak better Spanish than him and I've been there 3 times in my life...

Yes it's weird, you learn language for a different reasons, but especially if you live in the country. I live in UK, EU citizen though. Of course I needed to learn English if I wanted to work there (well so I thought - I was quite fluent even before moving to UK and wouldn't even think to move if I wouldn't be able to speak) I'm married to an Indian with Nepali origins and we have a 2 year old. My parents doesn't speak English, so he picked up some phrases, but he is now learning from our little one, who speaks my language fluently. Though at the same time we are teaching him Nepali too and English he is picking on the go. My in-laws doesn't speak English either. So my little one need to know both so he can talk to his grandparents and I'm learning Nepali too, to be able to communicate with them. And we don't have a plan to live there, but it's out of respect and family connection.
Living in the country that long and not be able to speak or ever communicate with your in-laws I think comes with lack of respect, laziness and rudeness.

True!
Mine is learning 3 at once and switch between them without any issues and even replying in the language she was asked a question. He is 2!

There are a number of people who live in the United Kingdom who don't speak English
And the GP, a&e or police employ an interpreter to help access that service.
Guess how much that charges per time.
I'm sure other countries don't supply an interpreter.

I have lived abroad and did learn the language, but I still would have wanted an interpreter if being questioned by the police. It is very different chatting in the shop, to understanding the language enough to understand nuances of police questioning.

What is the language in this case? Languages vary in difficulty or other factors might affect whether someone learns it or not.

I think a lot depends on the language. I’m trilingual and took up Japanese when I was 51. With very little exposure I can get by in most European countries with just the linguistic knowledge of the languages in which I’m fluent. Japanese? Yeah, that’s taken a little longer!

But if we’re talking a European language, I think she could easily have picked it up. And still could if she’s only in her forties.

It also doesn’t exist for every language, and a lot of older female Bangladeshi immigrants will be illiterate in Bengali as well as in English, so Duolingo isn’t going to be much help.

My friend works in a job centre and deals with lots of people who have been here for over 20 or 30 years and can hardly speak any English at all !

yes my friend has a good business in Benidorm as a translator for all the ex pats who went over when they were aged 55 etc and in good health and now they are in their 70's etc and need to access social services and hospitals and dont speak a word of Spanish or very little. You have to pay over there, not free.

Definitely agree it's odd. Apart from anything else, I would want to be able to speak it in case there were ever an emergency and I needed to get help for my partner/kids. But also, if I lived abroad, part of the fun of that (for me anyway) would be to learn the language.

Last year I went to stay with some friends in a European country. They are from the US and moved there a few years ago, planning to stay long term. They haven't learned the language at all and just say "everyone speaks English here so it's fine!" (Definitely not true, I do speak the language of that country and had to use it a lot even in quite touristy areas)

I guess it's a personal choice but I think living abroad is the best way to learn a language (also cheaper because you are immersed whether you want it or not 😂)

They do

Less than 30% of people in Wales speak Welsh. Of those that speak Welsh, less than 50% consider themselves fluent. It would make more sense for people moving to Wales from non-English speaking countries, to learn English rather than Welsh.

Perhaps she is dyslexic and is not able to learn other languages.

@Natsku My closest friend has lived in Finland for about 30 years and in spite of many attempts to learn the language she says she just about gets by - she and her Finnish husband (and kids all spoke English in the home). Duolingo introduced a course only a couple if years ago but after a rocky start, with much criticism, it's still a very immature course.

My sister sings to me like she speaks French like a native but she has always assured me that she doesn't - fat from it even after 20+ years however she had recently (1-2 years ago) started her first period of employment in France and says that her French has had to advance considerably as she now has constant interaction in French so @Eastie77Returns as you found yourself - having to use the language at work all day everyday could well be a big factor.

How many mums on mumsnet would avoid communicating with their MIL and avoid doing the brunt of the mental load organising the kids if they could? If she can’t speak the same language as her MIL and her children’s school then she’s got it sorted.

Hmm, I disagree

I do think there is an element of willingness involved, but also aptitude to pick up a language

I've lived somewhere where English isn't the first language, and picking up that language is very difficult as an adult. I was very enthusiastic about learning at first but now I just feel defeated by it. I'm crap at languages basically

@Hotdogity why would you say that? Do you know the MIL? Is she an unpleasant person?

@Frangipanyoul8r so you think it would be worth all the struggles associated with not speaking the local language (shopping, making friends, seeing Dr etc) just to avoid having to speak to your MIL and children’s school? Are you that disinterested in your children’s progress at school that you’d prefer to not understand a single word their teachers said? That’s quite sad actually.

@wineeyeno it’s called “having an opinion”. It’s allowed.

Some languages are very hard for English speakers. I am guessing you are referring to Finnish. I am surprised she turned down the opportunity to learn but not surprised at failing to be fluent after 20 years.

Try learning a language that shares no root with English. Like Arabic, Chinese or Japanese. I doubt you can get anywhere from immersion only.

@MumblesParty you need to be very fluent to make friends in another language so you can get beyond small talk. And there are so many different social rules in another country that make it really hard work.
I lived abroad and the difficulty in making real friends sent me back to England.