To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

Well, internalised racism is a thing apparently…..

Exactly this.

It's like how I run my bus: No non-whites will be turned away from my bus; however, I do kindly ask that they sit at the back.

I find it divisive, it implies by its very existence that on other days people of colour aren't welcome which is rubbish, everyone is most welcome, just because typically older white audience dominates is not the point, anyone could choose to go, they just didn't fancy it (other activities have audiences which disproportionately of colour and that doesn't matter either. Inclusivity does not mean we all like the same things.

Obviously not scientific, but since you're talking about 'noticeability'. When there are POC (a term I dislike anyway) - they're usually Black. Although British Asians are the biggest minority and double the proportion of Black people. Every conversation that's about Black people , Blackout nights etc is assumed to be opposed to White influence. As though no other races exist. What about people who are not White, but also not Black attending? What's the net impact of that?

Unlike the US where Black people are the biggest minority at 13.6% and white people at only 75%.. In the 2021 UK census Asian British people made up 9.3% as opposed to 4% of Black people. Yet I hardly see any on stage.

Of course it makes sense here with a play about slavery. Presumably untitled fck mss s**gon would have made sense as an 'Asian Out' night or whatever. But if you want to talk about anecdotal visibility, there's my take. Nobody seems to be wondering about why the country's biggest minority isn't in theatre. And BAME/POC lumping everyone into one implies that White is the default and 'everyone else' is the same.

But they DONT feel welcome.

🤦‍♀️

I don’t think that’s what @Medschoolmum meant.

Taking the female only point, some women may want single sex spaces because of the perceived or experience ‘threat’ they feel from some men. Watching a DV show in a female only space may be more comfortable and should be supported and encouraged in some circumstances.

Some black people would feel more comfortable watching a show in a predominantly black space for the same reason. Some of those audience members would have experienced actually racism and some of what they see may resonate. Feeling safe and comfortable to receive this would be important for some. The experience of threat or actual harm towards black people is also a statistical fact experienced historically but also today. The perceived need for black out nights, is not just about history, it is about the experiences for some black people today. There is an ideology that seems to say that if black people don't accept that “slavery is in the past” and the experiences of today don’t count which is troublesome and precisely the reason why for some black people, a ‘safe space’ is absolutely vital.

I don’t agree that there is an othering of races, I think what is happening in the UK today is that black people are more openly talking about their experiences and wanting that to be recognised. That is how we move forward imo, not by what we have been doing before which is ignoring it and expecting us to be okay with it.

I agree with this. I think it's an awful step in a backwards direction. And what about mixed race people who appear more Caucasian. Or mixed families. It's just horrible. We should be moving towards inclusivity everywhere for everyone.

This was actually on Miquita Oliver and Lily Allen’s podcast - Miquita said how it’s just noticeable in places in theatre which are predominately white middle class spaces that you feel like the “other”.

I have, and was waiting for you to cough up a link to some meaningful article.

I’m still waiting.

They'd have to cut the ticket prices first.

Also9 didnt mean to capitalise white!

I mean, lots of places now hold events for those in receipt of benefits so yes?

I'm a descendant of a slave trader and of a slave (later a free women) so not sure where I should sit with all this.

I suspect the black out nights are just a marketing tool and that those nights will be on open sale if the seats look like they won't sell out. Look at how much publicity the black out nights have got. It's a brilliant move by the producers. They've got everyone talking.

If they genuinely want a black out night they will heavily discounted the tickets or give them away.

Let's see what happens.

Exactly! I wouldn’t be angry about a night that encouraged people from low incomes, why would you be? Anyway, the point is nonsensical because it isn’t comparable at all.

I have never felt that way. I'm mixed middle to upper middle and I feel completely at home in theatres, ballet, opera, designer stores, etc. I genuinely think that class is more important than race in determining habitus. The only place I have sometimes felt uncomfortable is at university, when I felt that one or two people didn't understand that just because I wasn't white didn't mean that I wasn't highly educated or well off. I had one fellow student express astonishment at my accent, which I found amusing.

Oh, so a black person explaining their point of view is just not good enough 😂
Maybe you cough up a meaningful article or two from your end.

Thanks for responding. Of course, I'm not saying that it's an identical question re women only spaces and these performances. Merely that I think there are parallels, and that it isn't for white people to dictate whether or not "safe spaces" for black people are appropriate any more than it is for men to dictate whether or not women should have access to such spaces.

We will have to disagree about the Black Out nights being racist. I don't see this as segregation, I see it as a simple recognition that certain subjects - like slavery - can be emotive and triggering for people, and I view it as a reasonable accommodation for a group that has been historically oppressed, if that's what they feel they want or need.

If other groups decide that they want similar accommodations - e.g. Jewish nights for a play about the holocaust, I don't have an issue with that.

Of course, I don't want everything to be segregated according to race, but I see this as a very specific event, with a specific rationale behind it. I really don't think it will be a slippery slope where segregation will become more of a thing. Moreover, the organisers have made it very clear that nobody will be turned away from the performances in any case.

I would add that, much as I am committed to the "vision of unity" that you mention, I don't think we can achieve this by denying the reality that people of different races will have different experiences and pretending that everyone is the same. It isn't about "othering" people, but it is about listening to what people feel and respecting what they say they need. As a white person, the idea of a world in which people "don't see colour" and in which everyone is treated the same is very appealing, but it may neglect the reality of people's lived experience in which "colour" and "race" are not things that can simply be brushed aside as if they don't exist. I

Really eloquently put - thank you.

Thank you. You said it better than I did!!

Your local theatre in London?

Are you aware that you’re basically using the ‘but I have a black friend!’ line to try to excuse your racism? Obviously you can’t try to do a reverse in this situation, because it’s simply not the same. White people have never been oppressed in the same way that black people have.

Yes.

The fact that time and energy is wasted on absolute nonsense like this really irritates me.

I still get kicked out of places, refused service , asked to pay in advance etc regularly purely because my race is Gypsy. But nobody gives a shit about actual equality do they.

I think it would be great if they extended their ‘cheaper seats’ for those on a low income to having full shows for that purpose- why not? Give people a chance to see something they otherwise couldn’t afford.

If Nlack people want to see an emotive play about their history without people who won’t have the same respect or response, I don’t see the issue.

Everyone else can see every other performance.