To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

I can see further than the end of my nose.

This isn't segregation as anyone can go. It may be beneficial to a non white audience to experience together on a few nights.

Why is this so hard to understand? It's actually disrespectful to compare what is really just a request to actual segregation. You can go on any other night, what are you losing?

Where's the segregation exactly?

I don't know how it is even lawful

Because it’s not broken a law. HTH.

@Suziethefluffpig
"I disagree with segregation based on skin colour based on principle irrespective of whether it affects me personally"

It's not segregation because nobody is forbidden to go to an performance.

It's giving people who have a shared history to experience the show together.
There are many reasons why this is a good idea. Not least of which the fact that they won't have to educate other audience members before talking about it, or feel the need to protect the fragile feelings of others.

This.

this thread demonstrates how sensitive and knee jerk people are about racism. Imagine sitting in a room full of defensive white people over something so bonded to trauma and lived experience.

You are aware that this government have allowed many asylum claims from people escaping Rwanda right?

Yet also try and claim it’s a safe place to house other asylum seekers.

Not being able to read should not be lawful, and yet here you are.

This was the number that got their asylum granted, that does not mean this was a number of all applications.

This thread shows that a lot of people don’t actually understand what happened during slavery. The bit about selling slaves was just the start, there seems to be a lack of knowledge about the treatment of slaves, it being a global business. The extent that slave traders went to rationalise the exploitation of a whole race, that continued for 100s of years. In the same way that there are still families in the west who continue to live off the fortunes created from the slave trade, the trauma of these experiences live on in black people today. Do some research on generational trauma to find out more, if you’re genuinely interested. Notwithstanding, the principles that were marketed to rationalise the sale of humans, continue to exist in the psychological of humans today, hence way, black people continue to experience racism and prejudice in day to day life.

It is so not okay to dismiss those that are telling you this is real. Whether you personally feel it or not and especially if you have no skin in the game at all. This is not about other people’s traumas, it’s about recognising this trauma and providing a space for those who need it. It affects no one else at all!

As someone highlighted earlier, the premise of black out nights is not a new one. There have been plays that have offered similar to reflect other tragedies in history.

We get that you're very clever @PenguinLord but there's no need for ableism.

Are we really impacted by events that happened 200 years ago no matter what the ethnicity?

I think there may be a need for humanity to reflect on our history but I think it may be counterproductive to keep linking current societal challenges for poc with historical events.

I just feel there is a temptation to allow such a focus on slavery to portray white people as oppressors and all other people as oppressed which I think is a simple narrative which ignores the complex nature of oppression between and within ethnicities.

Taking the holocaust as an example of extreme oppression I think most would recognise in 2024 anti semitism is not the preserve of white Germans (though anti semitism of course exists in all countries) and so there is a delinking of oppressor - oppressed through the passage of time.

I think there is obviously space for plays about slavery and as a historical record it is really useful and I think there is obvious empathy for those that suffered. What I question is whether there is an obvious contemporary resonance in 2024.

It is great to learn your personal history and look at events that shaped the world but I do question use of relatively old history to try and characterise relationships in modern society.

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

You are trying to portray this as win/win when it really isn’t. This is a modern fallacy, trying to pretend that giving someone a set of rights only has benefits. The whole trans rights movement was predicated that it was cost free pretending trans women were the same as any other woman, when this actually impinged massively on women’s sex based rights.

It is the same here, why should anyone care about black our nights as they are ‘not exclusive’ anyway and, even if they were, it is just ‘being kind’ to an ‘oppressed minority’?

The reality is that the intent is segregation and the assumption is that only blacks can understand the pain of slavery. I just don’t buy it.

I don’t want to trauma trade but the holocaust was pretty bad for us Jews, and my late parents (although not personally affected, as they grew up away from the affected countries) were alive when it took place. Nonetheless, I can’t think of anything worse for Jews and non Jews alike than separating audiences for Holocaust plays or films, or splitting a school into non Jews and Jews if a holocaust survivor comes to speak.

The more we other different groups of humans by claiming that their set of experiences are unique and not part of the human condition, the more we create conditions for racism to flourish.

History is littered with horrendous examples of oppressor - oppressed relationships and the human tragedies that result from the Great leap forward in China all the way back to the Romans.

An over focus on one event seems to suggest one form of historical oppression stands above all others and we should be exclusively sensitive to that oppression above all others.

Historical gross abuses of human rights hold a universal message of the darker sides of humanity and should be shared as we could argue oppression and genocide are features of our complex species and there is a lesson there for all.

Yes, society is still impacted and black people take the brunt of this while white people benefit from the privilege of being white.

The racism, subconscious biases and economic disparities etc that were entrenched during slavery are still present in society so we cannot de-link history from the world today. History shapes the present day.

Nobody blames you or any other white people alive today for the atrocities of slavery. As white people we can separate ourselves from that period easily. Because our families, if involved in the trade, were not traumatised, degraded and shipped around the globe. We do not carry the inter-general trauma of slavery that many of Carribean descent do. And we do not suffer the legacy of being less than.

If the descendants of slaves and other black people who are discriminated against as part of the legacy of slavery feel the play and that period of history has a contemporary resonance, it is nobody else’s place to tell them they are wrong.

Which neatly brings us back to why black out nights are needed! Black people need to experience the play without anyone telling them the way they feel is wrong.

We should be beyond categorizing people into their own little silos by race IMO. In 2020's it is identity over everything at all times - divisive, regressive and ultimately harmful.

@StormingNorman

I just don't get the idea of white privilege as we are all aware there are many white people who aren't privileged.

I think we all know what racism is, it's the slurs aimed at black players at football matches, it's the swatika scrolled over a holocaust memorial, it's pulling your eyes up to imitate an Asian. It's discrimination with job applications.

However I can't make that link from forms of contemporary racism to a singular period of history which embraced the transatlantic slave trade. The racial dynamics at the time were so extreme (people of colour were property) that modern society I believe can't reflect that time.

Owning human beings on such a mass scale was a heinous action which I hope humanity never again resorts to on such a dehumanising and industrial scale. We could all do with learning a little about that experience.

I think modern racism is a lot more complex and there are far more factors than poc being descendants of slaves.

Don't give up your day job to do stand-up comedy just yet.

How is this an 'over focus'?

It's a couple of nights of a request to allow a group of people to experience something that effects them together.

There are many examples of people having various types of get together with others like them, who have had experiences like them. It happens in just about every walk of life. From parent groups, to plus size gym classes, to autism friendly screenings, to ladies nights, to AA meetings, bereavement groups, LGBT groups.... there are hundreds, if not thousands.

Why is this particular one so bad? It's a couple of nights where a group who have had common experiences can go and watch a play about the background of where some of those experiences have stemmed from together.

I’m going to stop you before reading past your paragraph - you don’t understand white privilege.

White people do not make a space unsafe though - this sort of rhetoric is harmful imo.

However, I do agree that this approach for a play about slavery is good, as would a single sex female (natal) only audience for a play about male violence- but in general I don't think it is appropriate to segregate audiences based on skin colour/ sex/ any other human characteristics.

Agree.

I sometimes wonder if we need to find a better phrase to replace "white privilege", as I think it's very widely misunderstood. I frequently see/hear people saying things along the lines of "not all white people are privileged", so they clearly just don't get it.

@valensiwalensi

I have just came back from Blackpool and I didn't see much white privilege there.

Maybe Oprah can fly in from LA to teach them how they should understand their privilege when living in substandard accomodation, with limited life prospects and poor health care

I just think the concept of white privilege is a gross oversimplification in modern society and unhelpful. It seems to portray as all white people enjoying privelege when they don't buy any measure and poc dont occupy priveleged positions (they do)

Yes - you still don’t know what white privilege is. none of that is about white privilege.

I think class is a much more important determinant of privilege than race.

We also have examples such as Asian people disproportionately taking places at elite universities in the US so it seems not being white doesn't hamper some sections of society.