Should mum pay for the granny annexe?

[MooMa83]

Posting here for traffic. We're thinking of proposing that my mum move in with us. She's in her early 80's and starting to struggle but lives 200 miles away. I have 2 siblings that live locally to her but they can't/won't help out much. We already have a converted garage that is a bedroom and ensuite, but would want to do a small extension to give her her own living area with kitchenette. My mum currently owns her own house outright in an expensive city. The extension would improve our property so we would contribute, but is is fair that she also contributes? Do I suggest that this is deducted from my portion of inheritance? It would be great to hear if anyone has done similar and how they worked it out.

I fended off this suggestion from my DM.
DSis1 wanted to move in with her, effectively becoming a sitting tenant in her paid-off house, despite DM not liking her DH or DC.
DSis2 wanted her to sell up and give her the money to buy a much bigger house, despite not getting on with DM(!)
I didn’t want to take her money to enable her to move in, as it wouldn’t be fair on my siblings, and I wouldn’t have wanted to extend my house, so I suggested she downsized and moved nearer us and DSis2 instead, so we would both be available to help her, (although DSis2 wouldn’t do anything practical, in the event: that was mostly left to me - as in visits, meals, shopping, theatre visits etc.)...
She followed my advice, and as her health deteriorated in later life, we sold the downsized property to pay for her care, leaving what remained, to us equally, as per her Will, when she passed away, and effectively stopping any sibling from gaining an advantage over the other two!

Elderly care is about so much more than maybe going in to a care home.

Of course it is. I was referring to posters who ask what will happen when DM needs to pay for a care home.

There can be lots of challenging and distressing aspects of caring for an ageing parent. I would think these were easier to cope with if the parent were nearby and you could support them.

This is so true. You don't need to be particularly high needs to need substantial levels of care in your final months - my experience is that people can function well for considerable periods, but once they start deteriorating, they can go from "frail but functioning" to "need 24/7 care" incredibly quickly.

If they're living with family members, those people will be expected to step in and provide that care, and it can destroy families and cause huge amounts of untold stress and upset.

You need expert advice on this one. A disagreement on this, and subsequent inheritance implications, is that reason my mum no longer talks to her siblings.

Expect the work to cost a lot more than the value added to the house. Hopefully less so in your case because you already have the guts of it done, but important to bear in mind all the same. Get some valuations done and distribute them round the family so everyone understands you are not making a mint off your mum's "investment" in your house. It's not an investment, it will be mainly just a sunk cost that someone will have to bear. Her paying in exchange for living in your existing space "rent free* might be reasonable but don't assume that it will be seen as such by others.

You also need proper advice on bills and in particular council tax. IIRC if the spaces connect internally it's still one property for council tax purposes, but you need a better source than MN. Be extremely careful.

In some ways it's easier (less travel and more opportunity to visit) but in many ways it's harder too - because you're round the corner, you're the one expected to be there all the time. To drop your plans because mum has had a fall, or is confused, or because the carer can't get there so you need to go and make sure she's taken her medication or eaten her dinner (or one million other things).

We're dealing with this at the moment and it's incredibly stressful - even with a big family to share the load around. I can't imagine doing it all alone.

To counteract all the doom and gloom a happier story:

My much loved nana lived in an annexe to my parents house for I think about 5 years before her death and it worked really well. She paid for the renovation I am pretty sure from savings and rented out her own home. She contributed to the bills as she liked to pay her way. She loved her little flat. She was pretty independent but could share meals etc with my parents as often as they both wanted. She was still compos mentis although quite frail and she didn't need any personal care. My mum used to go in to say goodnight to her every night and take her a cup of tea in the mornings and then one morning found she had died peacefully in her sleep (she was in her late 80s). It was exactly how she would have wanted to go.

It was a lovely arrangement for all of them.
Nana had helped a lot with us kids when we were small driving us to school and doing afterschool care and regular babysitting and she got on well with both my parents so it was no hardship to them to have her live with them.

Mum was Nanas only child though so no-one to disagree with

To counteract all the doom and gloom

I wish people wouldn't make comments like this. People are only giving their own experiences and speaking about how providing elderly care has impacted them. It's great that you had a positive experience but it's not being "all doom and gloom" to speak about the other side of it.

Maybe your mum won’t want this. You’d be surprised, OP. I sure was!

I was in a similar situation years ago. My mum didn’t want to live with us. She preferred staying in her own home which now funds her nursing home. It’s so much better! My mum ended up with dementia and I wouldn’t have coped with the care she’s required in her 80s. It would have been too big for me. I’m happy to see ‘my inheritance’ (her money) supporting her in her old age. That’s what her money is for. She’s ended up in a great home being really well looked after and it’s taken a huge burden off of me (I’ve been in a carer role before and it can be really tough on everyone in a household). The 80s can be, not always, but can be- just want to clarify so that I don’t get hate- a tough decade, i.e. big steps downward rather than a steady decline.

I don't think OPs mother is doing anything to her it was OPs idea.
It isn't something everyone would want and I wouldn't but I know someone who has done this and it has worked very well. It all depends on the individuals involved.
If you can afford it I think PPs ideas that you pay for the extension and then you charge rent makes the most sense. Although I think your idea of having some of your inheritance early to pay for the extension also sounds reasonable.
But I think thank you need to talk to your mother to come to an arrangement that suits you all.

If you work will your DM be on her own most of the day? Will she know anyone apart from you?

How will you cope if she needs more care and support?

Would it be better if she moved into retirement property near you? Then she would gain a social circle

I agree. We have just done this for my dm and never crossed our minds to charge her rent or make her pay.

You're getting a little ahead of yourself. She might not actually want to move.

I think you need to establish that before working out the finer details.

We have my parent living with us, however we each sold our individual properties to buy a house with an existing annexe for them. The proportion of money the parent paid is ring-fenced and should for whatever reason the property be sold they would realise the same proportion back. As the annexe has its own front door and kitchen and bathroom it has a separate council tax bill, but at a 50% reduction. So far, 1.5 years later, the arrangement is working well. Hopefully, this situation will continue. Parent is in relatively good health but we are all fully aware that this may change. However, said parent is providing a substantial amount of childcare for us at the moment and we are fully prepared to reciprocate as fully as we can should the need arise. But we got full legal advice before we came to this arrangement and would advise that you do too. You definately need to understand deprivation of assets and also have a plan in place for what would happen should your property need to sold (marriage break down, spousal death, your death etc. Gloomy but not impossible).

@OlgaRhythm I remember a thread on here where a poster was left with MIL living with them after the poster’s partner died. The MIL’s health deteriorated. They had another adult DC but they didn’t want anything to do with ailing mum. MIL ended up in a care home but it was horrendously stressful and difficult to sort out as MIL didn’t want to leave

@Molonty not everyone can afford to not have some monetary contribution

If your mum pays for what is essentially an improvement to your home, and later might need 24/7 residential care, her share would be seen as ‘deprivation of assets’ - the council won’t care that it was done with the best of intentions.

Though of course, if there was still enough cash for her to self-fund, the question would not arise.

Having said that, just a word of warning - I’ve heard of cases where an annexe has worked very well - until dementia has reared its dreaded head - when it has turned into something of a nightmare. Unless anyone has lived with it, it’s rare for them to understand just how hard and exhausting caring for someone with dementia can be.

I'm considering this for the future myself for my own mum. If she wants to come live with me, I will have to become her full time carer, as I am determined not to let her die in a care home.

I will be expecting her to pay the vast majority of it. The extra value on my home once she dies can pay for me being the only sibling who actually does anything for her.

@CinnamonJellyBeans does your mum have a day in this? If she develops dementia do you know how to cope? If you are full time carer how will you afford it? If she needs care 24/7 how will you cope?

@crumblingschools If she develops dementia, that's a good reason to keep her with me until it's absolutely impossible. DD1 worked in a dementia care home setting and the stories she came home with were vile. Absolutely vile.

I don't even like my mum very much, but she's my responsibilty now. I know that looking after elderly parents is a mammoth task. I know may need to change my mind if this becomes absolutely impossible, but I have decided that she will not go into a home. Husband supports me on this.

I’d pay for it and you charge her rent. I think that’s the best way to make it work.

@CinnamonJellyBeans does your husband have parents he may need to care for too?

No!

is there a 50 or 60+ sheltered living complex near you where she'd be supported, but you (and siblings) able to visit frequently.
Might be preferable to the granny annex, and no combined financial implications.

Is there room in the garage conversion for a small kitchen pod in one corner so your mum can make drinks and light meals? It would speed up the whole process and mean she could get the best of you company now rather than at the end of a potentially stressful process.

I'd be wary of adding kitchen facilities without the advice of an architect that knows the H&S regs - for the sake of DM, your family and selling it on. Presumably you could use the architect that worked on the original garage convrsion?