Should mum pay for the granny annexe?

[MooMa83]

Posting here for traffic. We're thinking of proposing that my mum move in with us. She's in her early 80's and starting to struggle but lives 200 miles away. I have 2 siblings that live locally to her but they can't/won't help out much. We already have a converted garage that is a bedroom and ensuite, but would want to do a small extension to give her her own living area with kitchenette. My mum currently owns her own house outright in an expensive city. The extension would improve our property so we would contribute, but is is fair that she also contributes? Do I suggest that this is deducted from my portion of inheritance? It would be great to hear if anyone has done similar and how they worked it out.

I've actually heard of a situation where the mum moved in with her children, and paid for work to be done on the house to make it suitable, but then quickly fell ill and needed to go into a home. The council then looked into her finances and considered she had been trying to avoid using her own money for care expenses.

Obviously it's to be hoped your mum will be able to live with you for many years, but I think her paying you rent is a good way to avoid any difficulties regarding who owns the house. You could look into what is the maximum she could pay and gift you so it helps you pay for the work to be done.

Once annexe has a kitchen too it will be liable for council tax.

To be honest if your siblings can’t/won’t help out and work is needed to your home to create a granny annexe to allow you to take on the work of caring for your mum then I think they’d be pretty unreasonable to object to her funding that work even if it meant you got benefit from it.

Though reading some of the other comments if she can buy a small, self contained home close to you that’s clearly hers that might be a lot more straightforward. I hadn’t realised paying to adapt a space belonging to a child make it usable for you would also be considered deprivation of assets.

Yes, and councils are so cash-strapped they will look very closely into things like this. There's no such thing as an early inheritance and suddenly handing over more money than had been usual (eg annual presents for grandchildren) would be queried.

If you can access the money again it's one thing, but if you can only access it by selling the house then you're putting your own home at risk.

I think you sound lovely.

The only thing I'd suggest is that you get financial advice for you, and your mum also needs financial advice. Tax, funding for care homes, is your mum asset rich / cash poor so rent would be tricky, would her home now be sold or rented etc for you, tax on rental income, cap gains when you sell your home etc

I'd be thinking about scenario building for major events - eg how long the arrangement would be for (long time / short time), what if your mum outlived you or you became unwell, what if your kids needed the annex, what if your circumstances changed and you wanted to sell. How would you feel for her to have new partner move in, another grandchild stay longer term in her annexe etc

I'd think long about this OP. She might be better in her own home with carers.

Over the years we have ramped to 3 care visits a day for my mum, she has become really frail and the space she has in her current home has been vital for the equipment required to help her stand, shower etc.

If you can create enough space fine.

Elderly people can go downhill very fast.

You will be waiting some time to get this done by the time you have plans, builders, etc. it's very possible that by the time you actually get round to doing this she is too ill to cope on her own even in an annexe.

In addition if she needs care and has contributed to this the council will look into this thoroughly as she might be in a situation where she owns part of your home.

This is a minefield and you should proceed very carefully.

You need legal advice on the what ifs.....if uou are going to use her mo ey to pay for the extension. And don't assume uou will be a le to are for her to the end. If dementia kicks in, it is very difficult.to manage.

Other way round here, but my DPs converted their garage and suggested I move in and pay them rent. I declined, I've always had my own home, and they are in rude health. DM tried to tempt me by saying what an amazing sports car I could buy instead of buying another house (seriously, I had completed on my house sale and stayed with DPs until my forward purchase completed, was about four weeks).

So, imo, you can't really charge for the works but 100% charge rent. Keep a paper trail.

@MooMa83 I echo what @bubblesforbreakfast says. I am dealing with the shitshow my sibling created despite me warning them not to. Sibling wanted the big fuckoff house so got my parents to invest ££££ with no legal agreement and then 3 years later asked me to tell my parents they had to move out of their new home (Annexe). They were all shocked when I pointed out it was deprivation of assets and it became clear no one had a clue how much £ my parents had handed over.

Your intentions are good but you need to be really hard headed about this and have a legal agreement in place that covers a range of scenarios. For example if you sadly died or became disabled what would your DH and Mum want to happen?

I agree with a pp find a suitable independent/sheltered living flat near you. The flat should have all the aids to help her, it may provide a ready made community (social isolation is a big deal when you move), 24/7 emergency help, recommended carers etc. plus you will be nearby.

Even if it doesn't have its own entrance, some councils charge council tax if the annexe has a kitchen and or bathroom. A gentle reminder that you don't have an inheritance or a portion of it until she is dead. ....and yes, by the time the annexe is habitable it may not be suitable.....lots to think about.

Not ina million years.

What is mum went into care for years?

Therefore, as most FM's have stated, you pay for it as its your property and the annex/extension is part of that that will increase the price of your place

No way should mum pay for it and get stuck there, ie lets say she changed her mind and wanted to move - its easy to move if you are paying rent.

So, you pay for the extension to your home and let mum do what she wants with her money

This. ↑↑

Can't you discuss this with your siblings and mum?

I'd see what they thought was fair and then decide whether I thought their proposals seemed fine with me and go ahead, or not, on that basis.

I think this has trouble written all over it. We had a relative do this, they paid a lot of money for the annexe and then a few years later the couple split and the elderly parents are now living a very different life to what they would have had if they had not lost their money in the annexe. Partly I’m sure due to naivety and not getting decent legal help but I still think it has too many risks from both sides. I’d either fund it totally or perhaps your mum would like to give each child a lump sum now? Risky for her though.

The agreement we had for my MIL was that she paid for the work (from her house sale) to be done for the granny annex but didn't pay any rent afterwards. Our house was worth more afterwards, but everyone agreed we wouldn't be getting the work done if not to help her. So it was not unreasonable. Her sister complained we were being unfair and I suggested she could go live with her if she preferred and the complaint quickly went away! MIL was utterly thrilled to be with the grandchildren and definitely didn't feel taken advantage of at all. She had carers but we also provided care until she died. You will be default the carers but that was true for us anyway, it just made it easier for me/DH to do the caring because she was right there, no driving an hour to sort something out.

we did this for my mum after a sudden and severe stroke left her unable to be independent at a relatively young age (70) . we paid for the building work as it added value to our property but she paid for some of the specific internal modifications she needed which we wouldn’t otherwise require ( low level work tops and special shower unit etc) she also
pays us rent to cover food and bills.
however, please also do be aware that although this mostly works very well for us and i do enjoy having my mum so close by , it is an enormous undertaking. the emotional
and mental load on the rest of the family cannot be underestimated and with time, her needs increase. please do consider how this will impact your family in the long term.

Thanks for comments all really insightful and food for thought. I work in health and social care so think I gave a good understanding of the system, and what the practicalities of care entails...although granted I've not cared for a parent previously and can imagine the extra emotional side of things. What I'm thinking currently is that we fund the actual building work, but ask her to contribute to the kitchenette and some remodeling of the bathroom and some outside work (repaving etc). But that we stump the initial costs and she re pay us in a nominal 'rent'. Once the costs for this have been repaid then it's just a charge for utilities, additional shopping etc. I agree an open discussion is needed with mum and my siblings about the set up.

I would orgsnise a family meeting and ger input from your mother and siblings.
Don't be the go to sibling/daughter. As your.mother ages her needs will increase. She may be fine now but remember this is the best she will be, it's downhill from now.

I don't mean to be a negative nelly but I'm speaking from experience.Caring for an elderly person is a huge undertaking. While rewarding it can have a huge impact, physically, emotionally and financially on you, your DH, children etc..

Please think long and hard about what's best foe not just your parent but your family too.

Are you likely to stay in your area for the duration of the rest of her life? Are you in a cheaper area of the country? If so, how about she sells her (expensive) place and buys something smaller near you. (And tell your siblings to help with the move. It's the least they can do!)

I think there's a very real possibility that you'll spend a lot of money on something that your mum ends up not being able to use - or that she'll only use for a matter of weeks or months before her needs are too great.

I absolutely hate to sound so negative but we're going through similar with a family member at the moment and her needs have gone from "independent and able to live at home" to "palliative care in a home" in a matter of weeks. Things can change so quickly at those ages.

While your plan sounds wonderful on paper, I do think you need to think about the possibility that your mum won't be independent enough to live in an annexe by the time it's completed.

I hadn’t realised paying to adapt a space belonging to a child make it usable for you would also be considered deprivation of assets.

I doubt it would be. People seem to have got the wrong idea about what actually constitutes deprivation of assets.

If OP's mum pays for building works which are going to benefit her i.e. provide somewhere for her to live, then it wouldn't be viewed as intentional doa.

OP - I'd go 50/50 on the building work.

MN love to catastrophise about old age but only a small % of people go into care homes. There may be challenging times ahead but how good is it that she'll be on your doorstep and you won't have to do 400 mile round trip dashes to her in an emergency.

And how lovely DM will grow older and die close to the daughter she loves and raised.

All the best, OP.

MN love to catastrophise about old age but only a small % of people go into care homes.

It's catastrophising to speak about your own personal experience and how challenging it can be. Elderly care is about so much more than maybe going in to a care home.

People are talking from experience.
Lots of elderly don't go into care homes because their family are on their knees caring for them.