to think that if I shared an explicit picture of myself with a stranger and then they used that to blackmail to release client information, I would be sacked?

[cakeorwine]

I guess people know what we are talking about.

William Wragg: Jeremy Hunt praises MP's apology over dating app incident - BBC News

If you send an explicit picture of yourself to a stranger, you are asking for danger.

If I did that and I was blackmailed into releasing personal information on other people, I would be sacked,

But hey, it's an accident. Nothing to see here.

And as for MPs who then were contacted by a stranger and then sent their own explicit pictures, what is there to say?

So we're now judging everyone who sends nudes and not just MPs?

At what point in this interaction Wragg was having would you have deemed it reasonable for Wragg to send a dick pic? Given that the person who he was dealing with was a criminal honeytrapper and would have used them for blackmail whenever he received them?

If you send a nude picture to a stranger and then they use that to blackmail you, then you are fucking stupid.

I agree.

Indeed that is what Wragg should have done.

If you are so fucking stupid to send nudes to a STRANGER , knowing that you would be worried if they were made public, then yes, I would judge you for being stupid and irresponsible

Why send someone a dick pic?
Why not meet them and show them his dick in person?

Much easier.

Wragg knew in 2017 that the Tory whips had a video of him being urinated on by three other men. Like many MPs he was in effect already being blackmailed by his own party to ensure he votes appropriately. He should have been more discreet but there are no morals in politics.

So we're now judging everyone who sends nudes and not just MPs?

Yes, I do - for the stupidity.
It is something I would never have done (no smartphones in my dating days) and wouldn't do now.

A digital image that has been sent can always be retrieved.

Except he didn't and that is what means he isn't fit to be an MP. And being a politically sensitive person (official term in Financial Services regulation that includes all prominent people and their families) he should have been more aware of the risks he was taking. Even kids are taught that once intimate pictures have been sent you've lost control of where they end up. It might not even be the person he sent them to that was running the blackmail.

If you don't care about people seeing intimate pictures of you and you don't care about who sees it, then go ahead. Send intimate pictures of yourself to a stranger.

But if you might be at all worried, then it's COMMON SENSE not to send an intimate picture of yourself to a stranger.

You didn't answer the question about which point in the interaction it would be acceptable to send a dick pic.

If they'd met and had a drink together first, would that be then ok? Because the blackmailer would have still used it to blackmail.

Do you also judge the celebrities who had their phones hacked and nude photos leaked? Because it's their fault for taking nude photos in the first place? Digital images are open to hacking etc.

I would hope that they had got to know each other well, maybe be in a proper relationship, been going out and in a deep relationship.

He would have to trust someone and be in a relationship. Even then it's risky - because as you will know from what you teach children, once an intimate picture is out there, it's out there - and you lose control

On a dating app - that is irresponsible. And yet you don't seem to acknowledge that.

So I will ask you a question seeing as you keep asking me questions,

Do you think it was careless to send someone an intimate picture of yourself if you were at all concerned that it could get out to the public?

That is their phone being hacked.
Which is different to someone actively sending a picture of themselves.

You do understand that?

At what point in this interaction Wragg was having would you have deemed it reasonable for Wragg to send a dick pic?

Never. Surely it’s pretty easy to set yourself the standard that you don’t behave with a complete stranger in the same way as with someone you’ve actually met? Perhaps you treat representations of your genitals in the same way you’d treat your credit card details.

Some people are missing the point. This isn't about morality. Wragg isn't a plumber or a marketing executive; he's an MP. He did something that made him vulnerable to blackmail from a foreign power and then he allowed himself to be controlled by the unknown blackmailer, thereby causing other MPs to be placed in the same position. The blackmailer could be some saddo in a bedroom, but that also isn't the point. We have a serving MP who is a proven national security risk and the government is doing nothing about it. Why isn't he being sacked and why are they defending him? We may never know the full repercussions of the damage he did.

Yes. I was interested in their opinion of even merely having nudes of yourself on your phone.

So if he'd met him it would have been fine?

@cakeorwine answered for me.
Explicit photos is something I have never and never would do, so I guess I am judging by my own values.

The pressure that young people are under to do this these days is awful.

As a teacher I would have thought you would have come across this a lot.

Do you think it was careless to send someone an intimate picture of yourself if you were at all concerned that it could get out to the public?

I wouldn't do it personally. But many, many people do. People seem more intent on blaming the victim of this crime than the criminal who did it.

If you are at all worried that a nude picture of yourself could be used to blackmail you if it got out, then there is one obvious common sense solution.

He could have reacted by "Yes, it's my dick, I am a gay man on GrindR. What do you expect?"

And I think that would have left the blackmailer with nowhere to go and he would have had a lot of support if it had been released. Maybe some shock from some people that this is what happens on GrindR nowadays but I think he could have ridden it out if he had reacted that way.

But if anyone - and I am sure that this is taught at schools in PSHE - is at all concerned that an intimate picture of themselves might be leaked, then the answer is quite simple.

Don't send people, especially strangers, intimate pictures of yourself.

Maybe we need a public information film like "Charlie says" for MPs

(along with - if someone sends you a nude picture randomly, then don't send a nude picture back)

This thread is not about the blackmailer - who of course has responsibility as well.

Technically, it's also about the consequences of his actions.

And in some professions, his leaking of confidential information would lead to repercussions, including being sacked.

Total idiot. Now playing the poor me. Other MPs calling him 'brave and courageous '. Spinning and spinning of a complete idiot that stupidly sends dick pics into a brave and courageous person.

Yes, I do. It is different as a teacher because for children to be sharing explicit images is illegal.

Your moral values around sharing explicit images are different to those in younger people who are more likely to see it as a normal thing to do. Your assumption is that they are under pressure to do it, and that can be the case, but as you can see from Wragg and his colleagues, many are perfectly happy to do it.

I try not to make moral judgements on what is considered by others to be normal sexual behaviour. That's just personal taste.

You are talking about moral judgements again.

It's not morals.

If you are at all concerned that an intimate picture of yourself could get out, then you don't send the picture.

You do understand that concept?

It's not like people ever pretend to be someone they aren't on the internet. At least if you've met someone in real life at least you know hotty Dave from Brighton isn't a middle aged bloke from Kilburn with a beer gut and a heavy Russian accent.