My family are awful - but I love them

[babaisyou]

My family are loud, chaotic and dysfunctional, and some of them have views which are truly unpleasant, racist, sexist, etc.

I live far away from them and when I visit them I feel worn down and depressed by the drama and chaos that is going on in their lives.

I am centre-left. They are much further right - some of them quite far right.

And 90% of what they talk about is politics.

But I love them, so I keep going, despite the fact that I thoroughly dislike who they are as people and find some of them deeply unpleasant (for example my brother who is a huge fan of Andrew Tate).

Anyone else feel this way? AIBU to strongly dislike them but keep going anyway? Am I a fool? How do you deal?

i can’t get my head around this

It sounds difficult but the reality is that some people hold views that are hateful, some people do things that are hateful and most of us try not to do so but sometimes situations get away from us.

Family are no different - no-one is all bad and you don't stop loving people simply because they hold views you find abhorrent. These are people who raised you, who loved you, who care for you but who also happen to be (from your posts) a bit self absorbed, a bit thoughless and a bit selfish when it comes to them making you feel uncomfortable. No wonder you're conflicted but I think your feelings are entirely normal.

It's entirely possible to ask them to stop, explain that it makes you feel uncomfortable and explain where your boundaries are. It's also possible for you to express a contrary view and they can choose whether to listen or not. Or you can walk away from them.

But you don't have to disown them or get into an argument with them. You can love them whilst not agreeing with their views. I think we're too quick to take the view that 'if you're not with me, you've against me' and we seem, as a society, to be losing the ability to debate, to tolerate and to forgive.

My view is that Andrew Tate is a serious threat to women and to the mental health of young men. But having said that, he's very good at messaging and he's very good at connecting with young men who feel disenfranchised and who don't have the life experience to counter what he is saying. So whilst I have no time for Andrew Tate, I wouldn't condemn a young man who had been seduced by him. I'd rather keep in contact and offer up a balanced view.

And you've also fallen into the trap of believing 'right wing bad, left wing good'. It just isn't that simple.

It's up to yourself but you must have known you wouldn't get too much validation here tbh. Cutting off family brings a lot of difficulties, you don't want to do that. But you won't get a parade for hanging out with people who have nasty views. Not sure what you want out of the post tbh?

I think this probably quite normal OP. I don’t know anyone in real life who is actually NC with family except in serious abuse scenarios.
My family are a pain for a whole host of unsavoury reasons but personally, I wouldn’t go NC. More just limit and boundaries as necessary. Unfortunately, you can’t pick who your family are and they come in all shapes! For me, having open discussions have been good actually, hasn’t necessarily made them the best people but at least it opens discussion.

And you've also fallen into the trap of believing 'right wing bad, left wing good'. It just isn't that simple.

@Blistory Having grown up in this family, I believe that I have a fairly balanced view of the good and bad on both sides and this is not what I believe at all. But thank you for the thoughtful post and advice.

I completely agree re Andrew Tate and I worry that my siblings are vulnerable young people in their 20's who have been/ are being seduced and brainwashed. I work with young people so I am not a stranger to these problems. They are also autistic and complete black and white thinkers. But in this case, I feel completely helpless. They will not listen to anything I say and there are other family members who they respect more than me who will reinforce all of the messaging.

I went NC with my father. He then died. It was horrible, but I don't regret it. He missed out on seeing his first grandchild though. I hope if there is an afterlife, that he can regret that.

They are racists and sexists. And therefore awful people. That should always be at the forefront of any discussion of them.

I do not see why you would inflict them on your DH. If you choose to have a relationship with them, and I get why, it's not fair that your DH has to. If you have kids will you allow them to air their views around them?

i really hope your siblings don’t go on to have children Op. and surely you agree?

Thank you.

I do try to assert my boundaries by either arguing with them/ telling them my opinion, or disengaging and leaving the room. I make it clear that I disagree.

But it still makes for an unpleasant environment, and that makes me sad.

exactly

i wouldn’t want to subject my husband to this.

and my children? i wouldn’t want them within a 10 mile radius

Are they good company, kind and fun when you aren’t talking about politics? If so, it doesn’t matter, does it?

I have two relatives. Relative A is really quite right wing, pro-Brexit, anti-immigration, loves Boris, etc. Relative B is a Guardian reader who is absolutely OBSESSED with politics, and complains constantly to me about Relly A’s abhorrent views. I have never discussed politics with Relly A. I’ve no doubt we wouldn’t agree if we did, but it never comes up. I don’t disagree with Relly B’s views, but I frequently have to change the subject, but it just gets really, really dull listening to her rant and moan all the time.

I really believe that people need to re-learn social skills after years of social media bubbles and lockdowns. It’s possible to get on with people you care about but don’t agree with. You don’t have to cut off everyone who doesn’t pass the current acceptable views test.

Wow. Well that's a pretty big assumption.

I don't 'inflict them on my DH' he has the choice of whether or not to visit and I make it clear I don't mind either way.

The truth is, he often will choose to come, and he is actually a lot better at handling it than I am.

Do you mean that when you see them they would say racist and sexist things around you if you ask them not to?

op

if you have children, will you take your children to visit them?

do these vile people visit you?

My siblings are autistic and what people around them are requesting is not really on their radar. They just spout the nonsense they have absorbed from the internet. And some of the adults agree, others find it too intense and ignore/ disagree/ leave the room.

(edit: When I say adults - they are adults in their 20's - but I mean the older people!)

My family have their moments and DH’s certainly does too. My df’s views got very extreme as his cognition declined and it was absolutely mortifying visiting him in hospital by the time he was dying. But I still cherish every moment we had.

I think there’s a lot more to people than their stupid politics. And anyway I passionately believe in respectful debate.

@brocollilover Which part? Their views or leaving early?

I can see that would make it more challenging but will you allow their views around your kids if you have any later? And if other adults are encouraging their racism and sexism they are perhaps as much the issue. What happens out in the world when they are racist and sexist?

You're in a difficult situation OP because if you want to see your mum you have to tolerate the other members of your family who come as part of the package.

Putting their political views aside, are the other family members kind and nice to you when you visit?

Going no contact is not easy. I have found with difficult family members with similar views to yours that finding some kind of quiet stand off is less painful that the tear of no contact. I don't like some members of my family but it's hard to stop loving them after a lifetime of being family.

Ultimately I suppose, you have to protect yourself. These visits sound like they make you feel less of yourself. That's not good for you. How long will you put up with that?

I found arguing with my family didn't change their views (or mine). The peace when they died was welcome.....and I know that's a horrible thing to say but it's sadly true.

It's never as simple as 'they are racists and sexists' They are people who hold racist and sexist views. They may also be animal lovers and environmental activisits etc. No one is all bad or all good. If they were, the OP wouldn't be struggling with it.

I've known, liked, loved, worked with, lived with men who are funny, kind, caring and who are horrified by discrimination and yet some of those men have held the most awful, sexist views and been entirely unaware of how offensive those views are and how harmful they can be.

Some of them have been open to discussion and appear to have changed their thinking. Some haven't. Cutting them off and forcing them into their own echo chamber does society no good. Telling them that they are vile never will never change anything.

I don't have children and there are no plans to.

My brother once had a complaint from someone in a restaurant because he was spouting racist nonsense about immigrants. The people on the next table were middle eastern.

He doesn't care. The restaurant did nothing.

Obviously racism / sexism / hate are wrong but have aged out of the “left good right bad” student mindset I used to have. It’s

Can you visit less often but find other methods of communicating with your mum? Face time or something?

I don’t think people understand how difficult this can be. My family is very religious and have very different views and beliefs. I have to make a real effort to build an authentic connection with them. In reality we disagree on so many things but I don’t want to give up a relationship with my parents because of this. It’s good and normal to have people in your life you disagree with. It’s not easy though!

@Hagpie

having any relationship with a side of the family whereby i allow them to say 3 racists things during me visiting and then i leave.

it is fucked up on so many levels