Private education and healthcare

[LeafUsAlone]

I'm just curious as to why they are considered morally indefensible when people being able to afford better quality clothing, houses, safer cars etc aren't commented on in the same way?

Considering both private healthcare and education doesn't necessarily mean a better quality, why do people get so annoyed over them?

Lucky you if you can actually get access to this ‘non-essential NHS care’ that you speak of. Certainly doesn’t exist anymore in these parts! I don’t even try to get through to our NHS GP anymore, it’s pointless

Many secondaries in particular will face a nightmare over the next decade - likely that quite a lot of subjects will become uneconomic to offer at GCSE in individual schools unless the funding model changes.

A bit of an influx would be quite welcome, tbh.

The list jumping has now been outlawed. No more private to NHS transfers allowed

So you don't judge anybody for using private healthcare?

You don’t need to defend your choice to use private healthcare (if you do). Individual use of is not what I’m arguing.

@izimbra Not sure that you read the second part of my post correctly. I am not at all in agreement with private education (or tuition).

I judge those with the power and privilege to aid our public service for perpetuating a society where it has become increasingly necessary.

@Goldenretrievermum

"The list jumping has now been outlawed. No more private to NHS transfers allowed"

Not true. In reality it's happening all the time.

I apologise - I've been back and reread your comment.

I think you quoted the wrong person.

I work in a private hospital. At least where we are (NI) it has recently been completely outlawed, much to the frustration of a lot of patients + consultants alike. NHS GP practice nurses can and will now even refuse to see patients with wound issues etc after private surgery

The issue is it’s really not a choice anymore for a lot of people. You can either languish on an NHS waiting list for years on end whilst you deteriorate, lose the ability to socialise, work, gain an education etc or you can pay privately and have things sorted within weeks/months. I don’t ‘choose’ to fork out £££ per month on private healthcare that frankly I can’t really afford, I do it because there is now no other option.

What she said with 24carat balls on.

All most people want is equality from birth to death.

Its an interesting question, with regards to healthcare in particular, private healthcare can have huge advantages in comparison with the struggling NHS. One solution would be to privatise healthcare and then the insurance landscape would change and new cheap insurance would need to become available or some kind of gov assisted program for those who couldnt pay. Yet people wont even entertain the nhs being privatised.

People are likely jealous and I couldn’t give a fuck.

My dad paid for private secondary school as I had problems with physical bullying at state primary, and my catchment secondary is pretty much constantly under special measures even 20 years later. My dad started his own business from scratch, why is he not allowed to spend his own money giving his kids a better life if the option is there?

Private healthcare is also a wide range of costs. I paid for private physio for my 1 year old to help him walk, as the wait for NHS physio was too long, and then they discharged him too early. One of the best things I did for him. I also paid for a private speech therapist, again due to the NHS wait.

Question then - when we say ‘private healthcare’, is this only things like health insurance and cash for big operations? Or literally everything private?

What’s the problem with me paying for my son’s private physio at £50 a session? Not breaking the bank, meant my son could walk, and it is supporting a local business.

Private education isn’t neutral. People wouldn’t pay for it if it was. I was pointing out a fiscal benefit of private education. I wasn’t dealing with the social aspects because I don’t believe taxing or even abolishing private education would contribute to greater social mobility. It would contribute to rising house prices around good schools and exclude children whose parents couldn’t afford to live within the catchments. So on a social policy front it’s just same same but different.

not sure what Russell group unis you’re thinking of but here in Scotland the unis widening access programs have meant that Scot’s that do not live in the poorest 20% of postcodes have been excluded from popular courses in past years. Regardless of their achievements. Students from these poor postcodes were guaranteed places if they met the (reduced) entrance requirements. Which would be fine if the not-extremely-deprived students were told this but they weren’t, so had their heart set on something totally unobtainable due to their parents choices.

Due to widening access programs DD has even found it incredibly difficult to get NHS work experience - most programs are only open to students of poorly achieving schools so being a grammar school student she is automatically excluded, which would be fair enough if there was another way to gain this work experience, but there isn’t! This has put her at a severe disadvantage when applying to university as when it comes to healthcare courses they really do need it - surely equality for all is what we should be going for, not promoting even more division?

Not necessarily.

I went private for fertility treatment, got pregnant taking up almost no NHS resources and then cancelled my NHS fertility appointment, which hopefully went to someone else who might not have the funds to go private.

Because they want to drag everyone down to the same low level. If state school provision and the NHS are fit for purpose, people won't see a need to go private. Unfortunately they are not (anymore).

Once again, I don’t judge people choosing to use private healthcare, but there’s not point giving a speech about how it isn’t a choice – of course it’s a choice and of course you choose to ‘fork out’ for it. You can afford it, because you have paid for it. You have the luxury and privilege of this choice.

You say for ‘many people’ when it’s not many people at all. It’s people with the excess income or savings to pay for it – this is only for those on high enough incomes to afford it. If you truly believe that the NHS is a death sentence then you are buying into a society that dictates that only the rich should afford their human right to health and, quite honestly, to live at all.

It’s jealousy. If everyone using private healthcare and private education stopped using them, our public systems would collapse under the strain.

In an ideal world, they’d be well funded enough to provide everyone with a good healthcare service and a good education. But they’re not. The reality is, some people pay for better, and it frees up resource for those who can’t.

Ok, so you do understand, you just don't agree based on your own analysis of the impacts - which others may disagree with, and have pointed out those things aren't inevitable on this thread? That's cool.

It’s naive and reductionist to label the dislike of dismantling of severe inequalities as jealousy.