Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

Not wanting to wear a top whilst eating doesn’t have to be about sensory issues. It could be that the wee boy had a fear of it getting dirty and therefore it then not looking the same or it being the same as a clea top. My son, when a child, used to have to change his top if he even dripped water on it whilst having a drink. And it wasn’t that the top was then even the smallest bit damp. It was all about how the top then looked different because of the drop of water.

Of course people can insist their autistic children don't display behaviours associated with autism. After all, it is a scientific fact that moral indignation will fix everything and clearly it is only slovenly and morally defective parents of autistic children who fail to grasp this. I am sure the deep insight you have shared with us will have shown several of us the error of our ways.

There is self perpetuation of victimhood on here. Medically, it’s called the pity model. It’s awful.

Nope this thread is absolute proof that parents are often the biggest pushers of the pity/tragedy model. It’s sad.

Don’t be so obtuse and on the defensive.

All children behave badly at times- mine included. I’ve left a restaurant and driven home in tears because one of mine went in to a melt down and wouldn’t stop screaming. At the time I was so upset and angry but looking back I set that wheel in motion. It had been a long day out and so rather than cook, we went to a restaurant. The child was fine initially but after waiting half hour for food they were tired, cranky, didn’t want to sit in a high chair and so decided to howl the place down. If I had thought ahead, I should have taken the child home and got a takeout.

No parent is perfect and we all make bad choices sometimes- parents of neurotypical and neurodivergent inclusive.

"I am sure the deep insight you have shared with us will have shown several of us the error of our ways."

Yep someone with no experience other than knowing a family with a child with autism will clearly have more knowledge than people with years of experience.

And we have someone who thinks they know about it because they have had an upset toddler.

Get a grip.

What I actually said was I know I’ve made mistakes while parenting, I’m not perfect, I don’t know everything, I empathise with parents of neurodiverse children, I know the sacrifices that my friend makes everyday for her child.

I spend time with my friend every week- sometimes with her child and sometimes alone so she can vent. I’ve seen and heard from her what helps her family cope. Why can I not pass on her knowledge?

"Why can I not pass on her knowledge?"

You aren't saying ' this is what my friend does'. You are talking like you are an expert including rubbishing comments made by people with a lot of experience.

That’s not what this poster did. You are effectively trying to silence people whose opinions you don’t like or agree with which is pretty bad form for a forum.

"That’s not what this poster did. You are effectively trying to silence people whose opinions you don’t like or agree with which is pretty bad form for a forum."

And you are trying to silence me by saying that.

Guess what - I work tirelessly with my lovely son, his support workers work tirelessly with him, we've paid thousands to get him additional care & support - I've lost my job trying to meet his needs, doing daily therapy, SALT, OT, positive behavioural therapy, sensory integration courses, sleep courses, implemented healthy routines, used visual schedules - the lot. None of it has stopped my son's vocal tics (screaming continuously) - which means we are not accepted anywhere. It's great your friends' child has the capacity to learn from boundaries - it is not the same for all our children.

I do think that people need to have some kind of standards when eating in more formal settings;the wearing of clothes being one of these. I wouldn't be offended by an wight year old but where does it stop? You are inadvertently creating a situation where he child will grow an adult who thinks that its okay to be like that. I do believe in making reasonable adjustments but people are just allowing anything now.

I dunno... I see both sides.

On one side, I work with autistic children for my work, so I do understand how hard it is. Sometimes these families just desperately need a break, and if that's at an all-you-can-eat restaurant, so be it. Personally, I'm not that offended by an 8yo being topless. Especially one who clearly has additional needs.

On the other hand, what an 8yo can get away with, a 16yo probably can't. Even one that's clearly "different".

DC works in SEN school. Taking clothes off is absolutely typical behaviour as too hot, itchy etc. Very difficult to manage (not DC's remit). Child was doing no harm, seems to me. People don't necessarily understand that. Difficult for the restaurant, I understand but essentially harmless behaviour.

I also work in an SEN school and understand plenty already about possible autistic behaviours thanks.

When children at school want to run around the building or the playground with no top on, or no pants on, do you think we just let them because we have a good understanding of autism?

No, we don’t. We would work tirelessly to find clothes a child will wear, will change them multiple times a day if necessary, will let them wear pretty much anything that counts as clothing if that helps but we don’t let them go around naked, even in their own safe, secure school. No harm would be done most likely, but all children have a right to have us protect their dignity when they need it.

It is part of our job to help children learn and build up tolerance to certain things they have to do, especially when it comes to self care, like wearing clothes when you’re supposed to.

You sound like an amazing parent and I’m not belittling your experience or others that devote their lives the way you do. I hope you have the love and support of friends and family around you so you get a break sometimes too.

Of course you cannot stop vocal tics and I'm
sad that there are so few places where you are accepted. FWIW, I would not judge you one iota in you turned up in a restaurant with your son to enjoy a meal.

I honestly don’t believe that neurodivergent children fit in a box. My original comments were aimed at the original post. It said:

1. the child had been to collect food and had returned to the table before removing multiple layers- had the the heavy top layer been removed the child may or may not have tried to remove all clothing.
2. the parents made no attempt to even ask the child to put on a t-shirt. Under no circumstance would I expect them to negotiate, bribe, physically help but they could gently ask.
3. The father sat with his head in his phone, ignored the whole interaction leaving the overwhelmed mother to deal with it.

I don’t believe that all ND children are the same or it is the fault of their parents. However I do wonder, in this particular situation, were there things that could have been done differently that may have helped.

Child eating without a top on = wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, or any of my family or friends.
Child being distressed, screaming because he’d been forced to wear the top = me being upset on poor kid’s behalf.
Maybe the staff were worried hot food would drop onto his bare skin?
But a parent explaining autism, we take full responsibility is enough.

Yep, most of it has already been said by myself and one other poster who clearly has professional experience in this capacity. You don’t appear to be taking much notice of them either because you keep asking the same question. I’ve ‘typed out’ the answer to that several times. Read back through the thread and I’m sure you’ll find it.

OK so his autistic and probably incredibly self conscious about getting food down his top. He probably takes his top off to eat a biscuit. My brother is autistic and struggles with washing himself so he showers 5 plus times a day. Honestly I wouldn’t have been too concerned by this. I’d rather that than him having an absolute fit as his parents try to change his routine.

OK so his autistic and probably incredibly self conscious about getting food down his top

yes. It really can be as simple as what you’ve said. It was the same for my son as well. It’s great that people are aware of sensory issues but quite often the answer is much simpler.

Two things that could have been done differently that may have helped:

Once the staff were made aware that there was a disability and not just a child misbehaving they needed to recognise that the parents know their child and have experience of what works best. So they could either have moved the family to a quieter part of the restaurant out of the public gaze, or if that wasn’t possible, trust that a meltdown would be the last thing the parents would want and leave them to deal with it.

The rest of the diners to remember that not all disability is visible, or conforms to societal norms, so if the behaviour doesn’t impact them directly maybe stop gawping and complaining, exercise a bit of tolerance and compassion and get back to what they were doing before they made this little boy the focus of their attention and making a bad situation even worse. Hidden disability is well in the public domain, so it should have been easy to resolve with minimum fuss.

Oh ffs. The last thing on this childs’ mind was getting food down his top. Autism is an impairment in cognitive function which causes varying degrees of difficulty in the understanding and processing of information. Wearing the top was likely the step too far that would have caused sensory overload and pushed him into meltdown. That’s why he took it off.

@DotAndCarryOne2 i don’t need a lesson from you in what autism is. But I do think you could be doing with one given how easily you've managed to disregard that there are other issues apart from sensory issues that can cause distress to a child on the spectrum.