Which driver(s) were unreasonable (with diagram!)

[CroccyWoccy]

Trivial incident but I know mumsnet loves an AIBU with cars and diagrams so I consider this a public service.

Busy junction with nose to tail traffic on the main road. Car A (me) is signalling to turn right into side road. Car C is on the side road signalling to turn right into the main road. Car B is proceeding straight on on the main road in the opposite direction to Car A.

Car C moves forward as far as it can in the traffic, blocking Car A’s route into the side road. As the car in front of Car C moves forward creating some space, Car B then moves forward across Car C’s lane, but can’t complete the turn because Car A (me) is still waiting to turn right.

There is now a three-way blockage with no car able to move.

There are cars behind all three cars so no-one can reverse.

Car A (me) manages to get us out of the impasse by mounting the pavement behind Car C in order to complete the right turn.

Which cars were the most U?

B shouldn't have blocked the side road if it's nose to tail traffic, but C should never have pulled forwards if it wasn't clear to go as B has right of way. In this situation I'd say the onus is on C to back up a bit and let B through.

They pulled out when someone was turning right 🤦🏻‍♀️

The only possible excuse is they hadn’t noticed, in which case they need to actually pay attention!

Maybe balance not waiting all day with not making utterly twatty manoeuvres.

We have roadworks pretty much outside our house atm, the entitlement, anggression and lack of any consideration for others is frankly horrifying.

Ok, from your follow on. Car B and the oneein front should not have blocked the side road. First error. Then car C should have pulled out but in this sort of traffic he may have been waiting forever if he waited for it to be clear both days

Car in position C needs to wait until he/she has right of way, or someone lets him/her out (more likely to happen if you don't force your way out).

Everyone was impatient and pushing forward which led to this. Eg you could have held back a bit to let C out, C could have held back until you turned in, B could have held back to led C out. So everyone contributed, depends who was there first I suppose - I'm assuming C was?

These things don't happen if everyone is a bit more thoughtful.

That being said, B is the person I blame most - C had to nudge forward or they're never getting out - any normal person in B position would let them, by letting you in first then letting C out.

I think this is the nub of the issue! Other people are saying B had right of way but could have let A and C proceed as a courtesy.

I’ve always been taught that you should not block a side road in standing traffic like this. So I think B was at fault for not leaving the junction clear.

Car C was the most unreasonable as had the least right of way. However their actions may be understandable in context.

Car B had priority as on the main road and not turning but bears some responsibility as they could have prevented the whole situation by being more considerate of other road users and pausing in the nose to tail traffic just before the junction in order to allow these kinds of maneuvers. They may have not been paying sufficient attention to notice that there was a junction they would be blocking or they may have noticed but not cared or genuinely thought that pausing for 10 seconds would seriously affect their journey.

Car A had second priority as on the main road and turning. However they could also have made everyone's lives nicer by waiting a few seconds anc pausing before the junction to let C out. They weren't obliged to do this and had every right not to but it would have been the mark of a considerate driver and would not have delayed their journey or other traffic significantly. I would also be interested to know whether they started signalling their need to turn right with plenty of time for A to notice and react as above.

C technically caused the problem by being impatient however we don't know all the backstory - maybe he had been sitting there trying to turn right for ages and all the drivers on the main road in the nose to tail traffic kept failing to act considerately and reasonably as above and this might have been the 40th occasion when someone could easily have let him out without much delay.

If you always have to leave junctions clear, why do some have yellow boxes and some don't? It's common sense to leave them clear of course, but I'm not sure you 'have to'.

How did you all sort it out, OP?

@FUPAgirl Yellow boxes tend to be at busier junctions/where there have been issues but you always have to keep junctions clear.

Car C was wrong and caused the problem.
Car B was also wrong - it should not have blocked the side road in traffic.
Car A was also wrong to mount the pavement.

Car C should have reversed back. If that was not possible Car A should have rolled its headlights, gone straight on and taken an inconvenient but safe and legal diversion and then posted on Mumsnet about having successfully occupied the moral high ground in the face of extreme provocation.

It’s also possible that Car A had the opportunity to prevent all this by letting car C pull out before it moved into the turning position, but that can by risky and is sometimes not possible or safe.

See rule 151 of the Highway Code.

Car B blocked the junction if the traffic was stationary. Car B was the key to everyone managing to finish their manoeuvres. They incorrectly assessed the sequence needed for the situation. A complete lack of hazard perception.
There's also no right of way just priority.

Aha yes! So I was right that you shouldn’t block a side road.

I think it’s the difference between a should and a must in Highway Code terms. Blocking a yellow box is a legal violation. Blocking an ordinary side road is against the Highway Code but isn’t an illegal move.

This isn’t a question of unreasonable or not, it’s about the actual highway code and dangerous driving. C is wrong.

B was the, admittedly, unreasonable to make the situation worse, even though it is their right of way.

Car C did what most of us do when we're trying to pull out into traffic. The "polite" thing would have been for Car B to let Car A then Car C across as he had control over the flow of traffic. But, on paper, Car C was in the wrong to block the road.

Do 'most' of us create a hazard every time we pull out of a difficult junction?

Why did car c pull out. Car b has right of way... everyone should wait till car b has gone past

B shouldn’t have blocked the junction.

C shouldn’t have pulled out unless it was clear but given the traffic would have been waiting all day so I understand the nudging out. They clearly misread the situation with you turning right though so are wrong for that.

But sounds like B created most issues by not waiting for a few seconds for you & C to complete manoeuvres.

And only you know if you were also a bit impatient & could have avoided the whole thing by letting C complete their manoeuvre ahead of you turning.

Sadly this is probably true. Most people shouldn’t be allowed to drive though, including you if you’d have done that.

But in nose to tail traffic you’d never get the chance to join a main road. Most people understand this and have a bit of flexibility in this kind of situation. Zipper merge type of thing.

You have right of way over car C as you're on the main highway. Assuming you were already there and car B could move forward in the traffic, it'd have been courteous if car B gave way to you, but guess they didn't want to do that as chances are everyone behind you and car C would take advantage and move as well.

Reminds me of when I'm trying to pull out from my GP's car park. There's a caravan sale yard next to it and the whole bike lane is always full of parked cars. It makes pulling out onto the highway very scary, because you can't see the oncoming traffic at all unless you pull out so far you're likely to be hit. (NB this is in Australia.) I park elsewhere and do a ten minute walk back now.

Imo Car B is at fault as the traffic was slow moving/stationary, therefore blocking a junction.