To be shocked that Derek Draper didn’t qualify for NHS Continuing Healthcare

[Mum1976Mum]

Just sat down to watch the latest Kate Garraway documentary. I am absolutely shocked that Derek didn’t qualify for NHS Continuing Healthcare funding as his needs weren’t deemed high enough. This funding isn’t means tested so how much money they have isn’t relevant.

I have some experience of this as we had to claim for my grandad about 8 years ago. He had sarcoma and had to have his leg amputated. He had a prosthesis fitted and was actually pretty active! He could do a lot of things for himself but struggled with self care (showering) and he qualified for the funding.

I honestly thought that, should the worst happen, and someone needed a substantial amount of care that they would qualify. Watching the documentary, Derek needed help with absolutely everything! How on earth did he not qualify?

But this was not old age where nearly everyone has to self fund .this was an illness. Should people self fund if they have MND or MS ? If not why not ?

Because it doesn’t go on diagnose or personal care needs - it goes on medical needs

as I said above if you met my daughter you would never even notice she was disabled she is completely abled

my friend son is severely disabled

however he does not need nursing level care where as she does as her medical cares are daily IVs

so she gets CHC and he gets social care …

But it’s not the case that it’s only the elderly who have to self fund if they are able - younger people with health conditions still have to self fund the care they need if they have the means. It’s not ideal but the same social care rules apply.

And yet I was told that my mum needed a DNR order because without it, if she were resuscitated after a major health event, she would have no quality of life and would likely end up in a nursing home on life support - and would have to pay for the privilege. This is the problem - the advice isn’t consistent and I suspect that’s because CHC is kept on the quiet unless families demonstrate that they know the law.

As far as I can see, these authorities will use any means to extract money. My mum was discharged from hospital with a temporary care package, which we were told was the ‘assessment period’ and free for the first 28 days to allow her to recover and rehabilitate. At the end of the assessment period we received a bill for £800 from the Local Authority, and were told that we had been misinformed by the hospital - threatened with the Bailiffs if we didn’t pay up. It’s astounding what they’re allowed to do, and how little recourse people have.

I got slammed on another thread for suggesting older people who had normal age related issues like diabetes for example, and inflated their symptoms on forms shouldn't get handouts, so that it goes to people in desperate need.

^^ This. I’m a district nurse this is the most accurate description of what the problem is.

Yes I agree that I do not wish to find someone's care who has equity in their home.. but then what about the scenario where somebody could have had equity but spent it knowing the taxpayer would pick up the tab?

Well you rightly got slammed - if only for referring to disability benefits as ‘handouts’. I was a benefit adviser in a previous life and IME it wasn’t a case of inflating symptoms. You have to describe how your condition affects you on your worst days to get anywhere. Most claimants have to go through an assessment - either phone or face to face, so the information is checked, and the assessment is harsh. Personal Independence Payment is one of the hardest benefits to claim - even for those genuinely severely disabled. The purpose of disability benefits is not to ration them to those in desperate need. They’re there to mitigate the extra cost of living with a disability.

And what about the scenario where those who are self funding are expected to contribute towards care for those who haven’t made provision ? Residential homes routinely charge self funders considerably more so that they can offer places to la funded residents. A relative in one of these homes pays around £1000 a month more than LA funded residents for the same facility. That’s £12,000 a year out of the sale of the home they’ve worked for all their lives. There has to be a fairer system for all. And deprivation of assets weeds out those who have spent their equity, if at the time the money was spent, they could reasonably have expected to have care needs.

This

"Well you rightly got slammed - if only for referring to disability benefits as ‘handouts’. I was a benefit adviser in a previous life and IME it wasn’t a case of inflating symptoms. You have to describe how your condition affects you on your worst days to get anywhere. Most claimants have to go through an assessment - either phone or face to face, so the information is checked, and the assessment is harsh. Personal Independence Payment is one of the hardest benefits to claim - even for those genuinely severely disabled. The purpose of disability benefits is not to ration them to those in desperate need. They’re there to mitigate the extra cost of living with a disability."

I posted on the other thread within the context of an extended family member who has mild diabetes, and somehow managed to successfully claim PIP saying he can't walk and how that affects him, when I've seen him running myself. The payments go towards cruises. The system is obviously not foolproof of so easily abused, and as I said takes away from those in real need.

CHC is only awarded when a RGN needs to be involved in daily medical aid. - not so. CHCF is based on the criteria in the assessment tools, some of which need RGN, while some can be provided by an assistant.

The critical factor is that the care is required because of a medical need. The needs are the basic requirement.

CHC is based on the 1948 National Health Service Act which provides for medical and nursing care free. That right has not changed.

They ignore the legislation too. Beacon are really helpful and I ordered their pack. My head hurt after reading it.

Not quite because my son is perfectly healthy and has absolute no medical needs. He is autistic. He gets 100% chc funding as he scores severe in the domains of cognition and communication.

I draft Wills for a living and clients routinely ask me how they can protect their hard -earned cash from paying for costs of care in later life. This is people with £1-2m to their name usually. Drives me bonkers, but at least I am in a position to tell them they can't avoid the costs, and they should regard themselves as lucky they have savings which will give them choices should they need elderly care.
We have all, as a nation, been pampered into thinking:

1. healthcare is free
2. children can expect a substantial inheritance.

When in reality we all pay for our health care through NI/tax (so should expect to pay more as our population ages and medicine advances) and inheritance should always be seen as a complete bonus, not something to work towards.

*behaviour not communication

£1,000.000 on a school place? Where charges that much? My son went to an independent specialist residential college which was £170,000 a year, I thought that was expensive!

We don’t though yes in theory we do buy most of us will never pay in what we have taken out
even if one person on say 30k a year paid national insurance for 60 years that’s only around 150k contribution

I earn Fairly well and on a personal level my contribution was wiped out by the time we left nich with my DD !

Yes I remember when we first got CHC funding for our son. We were getting 12 nights a year respite and as soon as CHC funded kicked in I asked the care manager if she could arrange more and it went up to 40 nights per year. We could never use the 40 nights though because the only respite place didn’t have the capacity 😂

Oh and for the above reason is why I never get why people defend large families - like I know I’m about to get jumped on 😂
but 22 kids and counting
every time it’s well they work for their money so it’s no one’s business.

they take more out that a non working mum of one in terms of costs - schooling / hospital care etc
also despite their kids working their whole lives in front of a camera seem to have very little prospects ones already in a council
house with 3 kids at a young age

but as long as his making pies his better than a single mum of 1 who doesn’t work.

Yes we had a choice between home budget or hospice but due to cost we either for 12 nights a year in funded in the hospice or 40 hours direct payment hours for home care.

I’ve never heard of one costing thst much either, ours la’s highest are £200,000 and there’s only a couple costing that much, they do have some childrens social care placements that cost £16,000 a week though

It’s defo an over quote 😂 even my daughters private sen school in central London wasn’t half of that !

I’ve friends who talk about avoiding care home fees by giving their assets to their children well in advance or something equally dodgy. I always say have you been in a care home/nursing home where the elderly end up who are being funded by SS? Some of the things I’ve seen and reported to the CQC (who do absolutely nothing) are horrific. If my home funds my care home fees in my old age enabling me to live in a decent care home with edible food a pleasant environment daily age appropriate activities and a decent ratio of staff to residents then so be it.

16,000 a week wow!. My son’s placement is £6800 per week and he had 12 hours of 1:1 and 2:1 hours every day too.