Lord above some people are just... unbelievable!

[DuIcieDomum]

There's an Apache MK1 final flypast today [yawn] which DP and DS (autistic, this comes under one of his special interests) have been banging on about for days. They made flasks of cocoa and set up deckchairs in one of our fields (we live on a farm) to sit and watch it. Anyway it was delayed by 45 mins so they came in to eat lunch and then went back out...to find two men sitting on the deckchairs eating sandwiches waiting for the flypast . There was a third man with a dog with them, who actually asked DP to put our dog on a lead because his dog is nervous of other dogs!!

Now, this was in our field which is private land. The field is visible from a footpath but the footpath just goes past the gate and doesn't enter the field. They just saw our deckchairs and though it looked like a nice place to go and sit.

DP said sorry but no, they'd have to take the dog out of the field if it wasn't ok with other dogs, and that he and DS wanted their deckchairs back. A bit of harrumphing and the men left but... WTF?!?

We used to live in a chocolate box thatched cottage, which was part of a larger estate. Lots of walkers, usually very respectful. There were signs up saying 'private houses' in a variety of spots, so I suspect the estate had had issues for years.

Our house only had a front garden, so our furniture, kids play stuff etc was all in the 'pretty bit'. The entire garden was fenced.
We had 2 episodes in our few years there; a family playing on our play equipment one day, although to be honest, clearly embarrassed and apologetic when pointed out to them. The second one though involved a man trying to get a photo of the front of our house, which would have been fine, but for the fact that he didn't want us in the photo. We were sitting in front of the house, on our garden furniture, having a beer at the time.
He started to gesture irately to try and get us to move, at which point my DH started to do star jumps (in yellow running gear). The man left.

The previous occupants had several tourists come up and ask if they did cream teas.

A while ago I was trying to do 10,000 step challenge at work. I had a day off and planned to walk all day where I had never gone before by simply following countryside footpaths on an OS map.

It was almost impossible. I had to turn around and take different routes several times as many of the paths on the map weren't actually walkable. In some cases it was obvious landowners had just outright blocked them.

Got lots of hostile looks and questions too - "what are you doing here?" "where's your car?"

It's not something I would do again, probably things have just got worse since then. I only stick to "recognised" routes from guidebooks and things. You can't just turn up with a map and walk around as you need "local knowledge" about wether or not a path on a map is actually used as a path or if it is blocked off and "defended" by the landowner.

PS - no I wasn't "lost" or "off the path" - (very overpriced) GPS OS App on phone showed exactly where I was. And no I didn't have a dog off the lead or leave any litter or go near any animals.

You only need to look at what has happened in Scotland with wild camping, and the rubbish and dirt left everywhere to realise that people in the UK are not public spirited enough to be allowed unlimited free access to the countryside!
That's what bothers me. It's exactly why a lot of farmers aren't keen on PRoW. I'm very fortunate that I have permission from a local farmer to use his land to train my dogs - though I have to message him first so he knows that I am on his land. And it's bloody wonderful: no litter, no untrained dogs barrelling up, no one smashing down the wildflowers like they sometimes do in the woods nearer to me which have footpaths through them.

There is always litter along the busy footpaths, despite the more public-spirited picking it up.

You also find that places where you could park to access a footpath get blocked by farmers, not so much to frustrate walkers, but because of hare coursers, nighthawks and poachers.

And honestly, I have walked miles on footpaths, well away from my car, with dogs (often off-lead but always under control). Only once have I met anyone shitty: I was with a friend and we'd lost the footpath (poorly signed). That was about 15 years ago. No problems before and none since.

I use the OS app and, whilst it’s great, the GPS is not infallible and the ROW are not always completely up to date - some have been re-routed and it isn’t reflected on the map. You really can’t rely on it to tell you you’re in the right place.

Blocked rights of way do happen, though it’s usually a lack of maintenance rather than deliberate blockage (which is, of course, unacceptable and should definitely be reported). It’s not the norm in any place I’ve used PROWs though, and I’ve navigated by OS map in a lot of unfamiliar places.

Is there actually a dearth of available countryside for the public to enjoy, or is it just that people want to choose exactly which areas they want to be allowed to freely enjoy - without having to make any effort to get to the huge swathes of appropriate public places - even if they're private land?

Blocked footpaths should be reported to the relevant local council footpath team (yes it’s a thing). They can inspect and order landowners to clear blocked rights of way.

Well to be fair..the right to roam and Free access to our national parks only came about due to the brave people that invaded the Peak District and forced the right to roam act (they were beaten and imprisoned)

Can you imagine not being able to access the peaks/ the lakes...just because some rich twat owned it all...

Not everyone is close to a national park, I think there's a middle ground. Yes it might upset some, but so did the access paths in the peaks.

Really? Crumbs.

I'm taking ages to get my gardens back in shape and I'll have to have the back garden dug up for the drains again, so my intention is to do the front garden first so that I can put a chair there.

Mind you, a few folk round here have benches or chairs round the front.

I know it's not the same thing but amusingly, there was a petition started locally to try and stop the buses parking (for 10 min turnarounds) in the local terminus outside the secondary school. I had to point out to the woman (who thought parents would defo all sign it) that the buses are absolutely right to park there but parents really shouldn't be. She thought it was reasonable to ask them to have their break at the next bus stop (which is on the busy main road down to school) rather than the purpose built bus terminus. No it's not a turning space, it has yellow lines fully round it. I just couldn't believe the entitlement. Secondary school kids can defo walk further up the road (I did add a caveat that children with disabilities are allowed to be picked up in school car park

Sometimes I think being able to weald a shotgun stating "get orff my land!" should be allowed.

Move to America then. They love their guns and shooting each other there.

Maybe because sitting in the front implies you don't have a garden at the back, either because you're in a back-to-back or only a yard at the back.. So by sitting in the front of a house which does have a garden at the back, you're showing your humble origins

You could argue that if people were able to ave more access to the countryside, they might learn how to behave. There was an increase in bad behaviour during Covid when people started walking in the countryside for the first time, and hadn't a clue how it worked.

We have a public right of way next to our house too and are happy for people to use it (or our drive) if easier. Generally, we are quite relaxed. But it is pretty unpleasant to come across people camping close to your house without any warning. More people need to know the countryside code. Just simple behaviour like keeping dogs on leads, respecting paths on farmland, not leaving litter behind etc.

Yes, there's a dearth. What is available is in large chunks, so there are areas where there are very few places people can walk. Even fewer if you accept that people don't want to walk the same route day after day.

And the more we block people out, the less they learn about nature, and the less they value it. Bit unfortunate when we've got climate change and massive loss of diversity

I was once working in my garden when I was asked to move out of the way so he could photograph a wedding party using my garden as a backdrop. I was so shocked I did. I've thought of plenty of responses since then.

There should be a right to roam as there is in Scotland.

Right to roam, only really works at high elevation (imho) otherwise you could walk in a private garden freely..which no one wants.

I'm a hiker, I walk miles and love the availability of footpaths, but I know that I am lucky to live in a rural area with access.

I would like to see more availability to the country, more free or super cheap camping. So many countries have free access to campsites and even public use cabins, which you can book for free (Sweden/canada)
I realise that idiots abuse it in Scotland and litter, but education and time, would improve the problem. (plus CCTV and heavy fines)

But private gardens are not covered by right to roam unless people try and claim the many acres the back of their house is their private garden.
I agree we need access to cheap camping. We are going abroad for a week and our accommodation is not much more than paying to pitch our own tent on a campsite. We used to go camping a lot, it is too expensive now.

And on a nice day there are masses of people walking near us on easy to get to footpaths. Most people do not want to drive miles to a national park, they want easy access to walking near them.

Another problem is maps not being regularly updated.
Rights of way can be diverted to make way for other stuff, new developments etc
They are sometimes removed if a new path or road network is deemed, just as convenient.
Requests by homeowners if a route runs too close to their property and through their garden making safety and security an issue could also result in a reroute

Approved requests made by landowners and developers are not updated on maps regularly enough and of course if your paper map isn’t that up to date it’s a problem

A road network is never as convenient.
I ran foul of this. Was walking across a public path I had walked when I was young and went over a stile. Had a woman tell me off for walking through her private land and she directed me to a road I could walk along instead. Why would I want to walk along a road with cars going by, rather than across a field?

@DuIcieDomum I am so, so glad your DP got rid of them and you hadn't come on here to say that you'd quietly brought the kids in and allowed it like so many on MN seem to in these kinds of situations. It always makes me irrationally angry

@FoxyLoxyLoo Don't you go over to them and demand they leave? Not that you should have to, of course. I'd be getting either an electrified fence or barbed wire at this stage. Maybe even tie a walkie talkie to one of the fence posts so you can loudly tell them to bugger off, from your own home!

To whoever asked about how DS being autistic was relevant - I'm just aware that MN can be spectacular at missing the point. I didn't want the whole thread to become about why they set up chairs to watch the flypast so thought I'd set the scenario clearly from the outset!