Friendship worries

[Pippin24]

I’d appreciate your thoughts on friendships generally. I am going through a very tough time recently. I’ve been very let down career wise/ home wise and my mental health is suffering. I find it difficult in the extreme to ask for help though I will go over and above for any friends that need help. I’ve driven hundreds of miles to be with a friend who had a bad health diagnosis, babysat, gave money to help with Christmas etc. basically been a friend.

I tend to be the person who sorts out issues rather than someone who comes with issues to be sorted. I’ve recently reached out to 2 close friends to tell them how hard I’m finding it lately. Literally called them in tears. Support from them has been minimal at best. I told one how hurt I was at the lack of contact and support and she reacted badly - basically said she wasn’t aware that she needed to check on me etc. has her own stuff going on etc. my DH has said to ignore it- people are selfish but I’m so hurt.

I get that it’s stupid to be upset but I just feel so let down by it. Friendship isn’t transactional and neither would I want it to be but I would have thought that I warranted a call at least. I think back on the times that I’ve dropped everything to call them or physically go to them when needed and I feel so foolish now.

If my teenage son came with this story I’d tell him they weren’t friends. Here I am well into middle age doubting my own friendships.

Firstly, I am really sorry that you’ve had such a hard time.

Secondly, I have also been that person who really bust a gut to help their friends.

I also didn’t do it transactionally.

When I had a major injury, most people were extremely helpful, but a couple of people weren’t. Okay, lesson learned.
They literally ran away from even just visiting me. It was amazing.

A few years have passed since then.

I worry that perhaps I was too much trouble for friends in that situation - because when I’ve had trouble since and I’ve actually just needed a listening ear I have had no help or support whatsoever.

One of them even told me last year that I should not expect people with children to have any time to help me.

She seems to have completely forgotten how much I helped with her children when her husband walked out. She also seems to have forgotten that she was okay to help me with my injury and her kids were younger then. Now they’re teenagers and apparently they take priority over everything.

I don’t know what your situation is of course, but my friends just seemed to vanish in lockdown.

And I have written off most of them.

It is incredibly depressing to be 48 years old and to have to write off friendships that were going strong for more than 20 years .

But here we are. I do feel as if something shifted over the last few years and people became much less interested in friendships.

I see it a lot on here as well.

I also recently helped an acquaintance who broke her arm.

She had no offers of help at all from good friends. When she spoke to them about it, they said “you need to ask directly for what you want help with”.

She also expressed puzzlement there because I suppose we belong to a generation where asking seems impolite? It’s more that you think people who care about you will offer.

Anyway, I see it on here as well especially the patronising “use your words” phrase saying to ask for help.

I certainly feel I’ve learned the hard way that asking for help just results in being told off apparently!

I really wish I could tell you something more cheerful.

I hope that some of your friends will be helpful and this may just be a temporary blip. The mental health board here is very good and a very gentle place. 💐

emma that sounds so difficult for you and I’m sorry that you have had such an awful time also. I think people like us are generally givers and don’t expect much back. That’s why it hurts so much when the bare minimum seems to be too much to ask.

I really don’t expect my friends to be there 24/7 but contact to even ask if I’m ok would have been so appreciated. I’m very independent so when I do ask for help it’s unusual. What the odd part is that I got very defensive replies along lines of - I’m busy, my kids are ill, I’m unwell myself, you have upset me with all this - are you accusing me of being a bad friend etc- it’s so odd that I’m now the person who is apparently wrong in this. Strangely mot
one has asked me if I’m ok ?!

Hope you ok op. Saw it alot in my friend group recently. Flaky. Its upsetting. Was close to a cousin and got dropped as quick) lesson learnt. I dont go out of my way now. Im finding people are self absorbed. Its crap. These were long friendships too.

OP "I’m very independent so when I do ask for help it’s unusual. What the odd part is that I got very defensive replies along lines of - I’m busy, my kids are ill, I’m unwell myself, you have upset me with all this"

Yes, similar here. I'm not sure how much if any time I want to spend unpacking this....But I wonder if in some cases it just feels like too much for them, and they maybe formed a friendship thinking I'd never need help?

I'm single and childfree, and I think to some extent, people have relied on me to come in and sort stuff out for them.

Until recently, I was a very organised person.

I had a nervous breakdown last year so I wasn't as organised as I normally was. I had not long moved house, (tiny flat, not much to sort but it felt like a mountain to me) and asking for help with that was met by resentment. If I'd said I was cooking, I bet they'd have turned up!

But help with unpacking light stuff is a shocking request, it seems. I wouldn't have needed help but as I'd been ill, I thought a couple of hours from a friend wasn't too much to ask and would get the job done in one afternoon. As I had been too ill to work, it didn't seem like a big ask.

My best friend did come forward and help, but I got the impression she was quite pissed off about it.

Perhaps some of our friends are destabilised because they can no longer see us as always a fixer of their problems?

If that theory is true, it's as if they wanted to be friends with some sort of ideal person they had in their heads, not a real fallible human.

People who don't want to even ask how you are, it may be that they can't cope with a truthful answer.

In many cases, they may be overloaded with their own problems. But surely that can't be true in such high numbers? Some of them just want friends for good times and big nights out.

But it's frustrating that they feel 100% free to bring those problems to me, but I'm not allowed to bring any problems to them.

sorry, I'm waffling...

It has actually really changed my perception of friendships, and sadly it has changed my life completely. I don't have anyone else really.

Having said that, I am starting to make peace with it and enjoy life with far fewer people around. I will be incredibly careful what I give in future.

I agree it’s like you become a resource rather than a real person with real feelings. My DH tells me off as he says I’m too giving and helpful. It’s who I am though.

emma someone I know very well had a nervous breakdown. Basic things were beyond him- making a cup of tea or brushing his teeth. He needed gentleness and encouragement which he got and he is better now. Your friends should have helped - I’d have been there in a heartbeat. Any good friend would.

mary I think I need to be more selective too- just don’t give as much of myself as it isn’t appreciated never mind reciprocated

I'm sorry you're having a hard time op

In my long experience with friendships coming and going i do see a pattern.

Most of us, deep down, are either primarily a giver or a taker. Mostly it doesn't show up until a 'giver' becomes the needer and then is let down.

Sometimes those you think of as outlier friends are the ones who really step up when times are tough.

I have very few friends now because a) i'm an antisocial old moo now and b) friendships are rarely equally balanced and it's easier to not rely on anyone else and not be disappointed x

Yes agree. I have a few friends. But Im def more cautious now people just use you. Its awful.

This happened to me and I still don’t understand why. Now have distanced myself and have more reciprocal friends but still feel sad and a bit disillusioned that someone I cared deeply about and supported was so cold and distant when I reached out. Thank heavens for the genuinely unselfish friends.

It’s shocking that people can be so self-involved. Not only that but they- as fully grown adults- aren’t capable of putting someone before themselves. I find myself wanting to isolate more recently which, because of how bad my mental health is at the minute, I’m trying to avoid.

I feel very used and depressed about it all. I’m being treated as though I’m being needy and wrong for being hurt about the lack of support

Where do you find them? I’ve opened my home to friends, given support without having to be asked, listened, cared etc and I’m left feeling that I’m a nuisance and that I should apologise for asking for help

It's not you OP. It's them.

Your mistake was thinking that calling them out on their selfishness would help. It wouldn't because they are who they are. Of course they're defensive. They know they're in the wrong.

I’ve had similar experiences. My husband was seriously ill in hospital five years ago and quite a few of my friends never asked how he/I were. Friends I’d supported through things, organised weekends away for their birthdays etc. I decided to see how long it would take for them to check on me. They still haven’t! My husband has been seriously ill in hospital twice more since then, my dad has died and my mother is very poorly. I’ve also opened my own little coffee kiosk three years ago and most of them have only been once in that time, some haven’t been at all. It makes me feel really sad. I’m obviously not worth their time/thoughts. Some people have said that I come across as very capable and confident, and perhaps that’s why. But I don’t get it. I’d never treat a friend like this. Just the odd “thinking of you” would be fine. Not radio silence.

laiste thank you for the flowers and reassurance that it isn’t me. I keep
going over the conversations in my head- I can’t understand how I’m being treated.

rory there is one lady who hasn’t bothered to return a call even though I and my husband helped her when she was being badly abused by her ex husband. I’m literally not ever going to contact her again. She’s used both of us - cash and support from me- my DH contacts in the police force - not to mention helping her move house etc. it’s shot that your friends haven’t slowed any support Rory

I've been there and have come to the conclusion that some former friends and current ones just don't or didn't care about me as much as I do about them, which is painful. After many therapy sessions, I'm more savvy now and very consciously I weigh up "What do I get from X and what am I giving?" and have relegated some people as a result. I do have one friend who very rarely checks in, but the emotional support she's given me over the years in other ways has been fabulous. Friendship's should be reciprocal.

It seems to me that over the years people have become more and more selfish and wrapped up in their own little world. They're happy to accept friendship provided it doesn't mean they have to put themselves out, but the slightest hint of their friend actually needing something, and they're off like a shot.

We were best friends with another couple for many years, went on holidays together, spent Christmas together, etc., but then when I became physically disabled, we were quickly dropped for other people who could do stuff that I no longer could. I could understand them enlarging their friendship group in view of the fact that I am limited in what I can do physically, so that they had company for going on walks, climbing, etc, which we all used to do together, but I can still do things like going out to the pub, or going out for a meal, etc. However, once they hooked up with this other couple, we were dropped completely. This really hurt me, because not only did I have to come to terms with the fact that my life had changed dramatically, but also that people who we'd thought would be friends for ever, could be so callous. Now, we only rely on each other, and it makes me appreciate just how well I chose, when I picked my DH.

I too will weigh up going forward - no investment in friendships u less they are with decent people who will reciprocate . the thing that takes me back so much is the aggression shown towards me for challenging them. I literally feel like they think I should apologise. .

lazy that’s disgusting behaviour on their behalf.

Wow I could have written this post too!

I think I've ended a 14yr friendship because I've spent years and years listening, giving therapy, supporting, worrying, endless favours all of which I did willingly.

I'm currently having a bad time and my friend told me she's sorry she not been in touch but its just the way she is

Oh

I'm so upset and its also making me question my values and everyone else's and my whole view of the world. I feel like I am constantly disappointed by people.

My dh says it's because I'm an empath and a people pleaser and other people just aren't.

Also oh...

:(

weary what a cop out from your friend. No one is expecting them to have all the answers just care enough to be present. selfish people are normally spineless too I notice. Why not just be honest.

I too am told I’m too sensitive and give too much - strangely not when the person saying it has had the benefit of my sensitivity and giving too much - just after when I need something.

Pippin24!! Yes..this...all of my friends tell me this...half of them drain the life out of me

Roryhon - I could have written your post too :(

weary drain is exactly the right word

OP, another view — you’ve set yourself up as the listener/helper/rescuer in your friendships, as you admit yourself. That worked for you, until it didn’t. Then circumstances meant that you changed role and became the one asking for help. You see this as though it should naturally involve your friends repaying you some of the effort you spent supporting them down the years, but I don’t think it’s necessarily that simple. It’s a whole change of dynamic they clearly don’t have a script for. Or not yet. You’ve changed the rules and they’re not only unable to currently give what you need, but are upset at you calling them out on that failure. Which is in turn making you angry.

I mean, maybe they are just selfish, self-involved people and, if you, I think you need to look at your choice of friends if this hasn’t previously come to light because you were the one giving, rescuing, supporting, making gestures from a position of strength. But if they’re friendships with value and history, maybe it’s worth trying to recognise that you’ve changed the goalposts (through no fault of your own), and everyone may take a while to adjust.

OP, I could go on about this for hours, it makes me feel ranty...but that wouldn't do any of us any good. 😂

It might help you to hear that I spent ages thinking it must be my fault before finally realising that it wasn't, a revelation that happened around the last (very lonely) Xmas and New Year.

Please don't let these people think make you think that you've got to apologise. You have done absolutely nothing wrong. I agree with pp who have said that it's a defensive response because they know their behaviour is poor.

I was never a "people pleaser". I thought I was in genuine friendships and did give and receive, till it went wrong. Now I try to take the view that they were good friendships for several years, and perhaps I should just be thankful for that.

Initially I planned to try and make new friends, but then I realised it's probably not a great idea partly because my own judgement may be very skewed at the moment, and partly because I think that friendship is valued less in contemporary society than it was maybe 20 years ago? Obviously there is no way of measuring that though!

feeling like I've been dumped by several people isn't a great starting point for trying to go out and new ones. You might also need some time to recover before doing that.

Unless you think your friendships can be saved? Do you think that's a possibility? It does seem a terrible shame to lose long term friendships. But yeah I realise it may be inevitable.

I'm another one who's been burnt by So called friends turning their back in times of need. I was very ill a few years back with my mental health ( perimenopause on top of work burn out and multiple traumas all coinciding ). I, too, rarely asked for support or help, believing I could drag myself through the mire alone without troubling friends, but I reached the stage when I just couldn't do it on my own. I was exhausted by the very effort of trying to get well and find my feet, so I I ' reached out' as they advise, to my best friend of fifteen years. I simply asked if she could pop in and see me on her way home from work one night ( she worked five minutes away from my home) and as I lived alone, the loneliness and isolation was killing me. She visited me once and her parting shot was ' I'm not your support worker you know'. I never asked again. This same friend who in the depths of my depression, I had still managed to somehow produce her ppt presentations for a job interview and rewrite her cv whilst not even having the energy to wash or brush my own teeth! She's out of my life now but it honestly rocked my faith in human nature that someone who supposedly loved and cares for me could be so callous in my hour of need , whilst I still continued to give and give even though I had nothing left in me. I'm sorry OP. People really can be shits.

karst you could well be right. The dynamic is and always has been that I sort things. I can be called at 3am and I will answer - I’ll show up if your car breaks down or your relationship. I think that’s why it stings so much when the one time I need help everyone is notably absent.

I think I just need new friends- I would never treat someone so callously