To be fed up with all the threads about high earners feeling poor

[trekking1]

It's always the same condescending "I've worked so hard and only have a 3 bedroom house in a great location and an expensive car", as if 1. that's not a lot 2. people who make 5 times less do not work as hard!

And the suprised pikachu face that having a degree did not magically get them a 500k job. That is not how capitalism works folks

But people on lower wages get UC top ups don’t they?

Rubbish. That would make you a pariah on here. Benefit bashing is very popular on here.

The fact you call it benefit bashing speaks volumes. Is this thread ‘bashing’ as well?

Do you think the bashing of higher earners on here is anywhere as vitriolic as those who receive benefits? You can read posts on this thread from people who think they live the high life.

Its all bollocks. The only threads more annoying are the ones where someone asks what do you earn and a poster replies "my dh earns 150k"...

Exactly this. My DB lost his job in the pandemic and asked me to lend him £1000, and then again a couple of months later. When he asked a third time I told him that I couldn’t keep throwing money at him but I’d help him go through his outgoings. When I did, I suggested he had his SKY tv cut off (£120 a month!). He absolutely hit the roof and told me there was no way, because films and football were his only luxury. We don’t have SKY tv because it’s too expensive, yet he thinks that I should have to pay for his.

If someone can’t afford to pay their bills once they’ve paid school fees, then the kids should go to a state school. If you can’t afford a pony or ballet lessons, find a cheaper activity. Nobody will die.

I depends what you’re counting as ‘high’. Just because they earn more than you it doesn’t make them high earners. Also, spending 3+ years studying for a degree whilst others are able to work full time should mean you have more opportunities for well paid work. The area also makes a difference. If I was in my job up north, I could have a bigger house and a nicer lifestyle (I’m a teacher and the pay would be identical but family and friends are down here).

If someone finds themself unable to afford the things they easily could a year or two ago, despite their wages remaining stable or even increasing, then they are struggling.

Recognizing that, and quite reasonably verbalizing that this is indeed a problem, isn’t saying that other people don’t have it worse, on account of the fact that it’s not a ‘poorer than thou’ competition.

Not everything has to revolve around the struggles of those with the least. Mumsnet is a huge and diverse forum that is open to posters from all walks of life. One section of society doesn’t get to demand that that every possible financial complaint has to revolve around them.

Have you read the posts on this thread from people who have childcare costs of £2k - £3k plus similar costs for a mortgage or rent? It’s not a case of over extending or needing to overhaul a budget. If you earn £5k a month in London/SE it is perfectly possible to live in a small 1/2 bed flat, live frugally via a strict budget and still struggle because the essentials (housing, childcare, bills and food) are so high. Surely that’s not difficult to comprehend? I’ve been in that exact situation.

Of course people on £2k or £3k have childcare and housing costs. I’m not sure what point you are making there?

Can you explain what these ‘options’ are that the person on £5k has that the lower waged person doesn’t? They can’t get rid of childcare as they won’t be able to work. The famous MN silver bullet to just “move to a cheaper house up North” isn’t a realistic option for everyone, particularly if your job is London/SE based.

can you explain where a band 5 nurse with two kids in London is living then? That was my point.

if you need a min of 5k to pay childcare and mortgage/rent on a small flat, does that mean everyone in London is earning that?

no. People cut their cloth.

fwiw I’ve also been in that situation. In London, big mortgage. Fine until we had kids.

i went interest only on the mortgage during the nursery years, and stopped paying into dh’s pension. For 3 years while we had two in nursery. We also had saved prior to kids and fixed the mortgage.

i wasn’t on anywhere near 5k take home either. Or gross for that matter. If I could manage, someone on 5k net can manage.

there are options that don’t include “moving north”. Because there are people in London who aren’t on big wages.

Not to £5k a month. Nowhere near!

There is no cutting of cloth that could make that possible, it just cannot be done. Someone on that income would have to have some combination of other income (UC or a partner), social housing/live with family, no childcare costs. Which is why looking at earnings alone isn't a good measure of anything.

If you use mumsnet as a resource / entertainment rather than a social life then you can just pick and chose the threads to engage in.

Just because someone’s stresses are different to yours doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.

I'm a high earner although nothing like in the hundreds of thousands. Have a small house and a 19 year old car. Only became a higher earner in later middle age however.

Still couldn't afford the house my uncle bought as a sales rep in the 1980's.

Not moaning about it, just an observation.

But everyone’s circumstances are different so it’s completely irrelevant that you or other people are able to do xyz on a lower income.

You went interest only on your mortgage. Great. Except mortgage costs are currently sky high so for some people, even moving to interest only will still represent a significant % of their net pay.

You mention you had savings prior to having children. Amazing. You do know that not everyone is able to do that?

I won’t ask your age but assume you didn’t have to make hefty Student London repayments.

I could go on. There are probably a dozen other things specific to your life circumstances that do not apply to other people and which mean they cannot manage on a lower take home pay than e.g. £5k a month. It doesn’t matter if you were able to do it because your life is different from theirs.

We have friends with a high household income who have a child with significant additional needs which 2 different nurseries and an experienced childminder could not meet. So they employ a nanny and pay her ££££ a month plus other employer expenses. They live in expensive London because they have access to their network of other families with disabled children, therapy and specialised help for their DC. Finding a nanny with the skills and experience to look after child took months and if they move away they will likely lose her.

The Band 5 nurse…well a close relative is a nurse. She lives in Romford with her DC, pays £1400 rent for a 1-bed and earns (I think) just under £30k a year which I think is Band 5. She sleeps on a couch. Romford is apparently one of Greater London's cheaper areas so our friends with the disabled child could move there…except it isn’t that cheap at all. They need a 3 bed house which currently rent for around £2.5k - £3k a month in what was once a very affordable area.

The simple fact is that for millions of people there are no easy, magically cheaper options available to them and the fact they earn a lot doesn’t change that fact. You seem very unsympathetic to the plight of people whose lives differ from yours.

I really agree with your point about divide and rule. The last few years has been a master class.

But the point about it being understandable to be angry or hateful of high earners scares me. I earn well and will always support paying more tax for better public services and redistribution of wealth. I’ve got a much more in common with someone struggling than I do with Uber rich people.

I think there is a world of difference between Winchester or Eton educated, intergenerational wealth prime ministers that we’ve had in recent years. They have done everything they can to hoard wealth for people like them and they are not the same as your average professional worker who is experiencing the cost of living too.

There are no circumstances that people like that could ever experience hardship. I on the other hand am the first in my family to attend university, graduated in maths, earn very well and am a home owner. I do not have the safety net these people have even if some of them are at the edges of my social circle.

I know a woman who had a 20 year old gap from working in tech and still managed to get a job. She gave a talk about it at a women in tech event. Obviously it was hard but not impossible. So I can't take these claims seriously that it's impossible to get a job after taking a few year off, sorry

Getting a job isn't the same as jumping back into your previous career. Honestly if these high paying jobs are so easy to jump in and out of, there's no excuse for anyone to be poor.

I’ve worked in tech for 2 decades and the idea that someone who last worked in this field in 2004 is able to jump back in and get a high paying role is ridiculous. Sorry but it’s impossible. Perhaps she restarted in an entry level role or ‘works in tech’ but has an administrative job.

Well exactly, some posters were claiming it's impossible to even get a job in the same sector and I argued they are exaggerating.

And I completely agree with you that if these high paying jobs are so easy to jump in and out of, there's no excuse for anyone to be poor, which is exactly why the claims of "why don't people in low paid jobs just don't get a high paid job" are so ridiculous!

They're not jumping back into high paying jobs though. That's the point.

See I've had my flat for 24 years so luckily only pay £450 a month. But if I was renting a room I wouldn't have council tax gas electric etc to pay on top. So probably level in that scenario.

But bills food and car prob add up to 12/1300 a month so have money spare

Well there you go then. That's why it's pointless to talk about earnings by themselves.

OP do you resent middle income earners moaning about being the squeezed middle too?

MN should have separate boards for high, middle and low income posters perhaps. That way no one will get triggered.

I myself should stop clicking on posts by people whining that they don't get handouts or inheritances from their 50 something parents and grudging them any kind of leisure at all.