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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the PoW’s diagnosis makes healthy living seem pointless?

637 replies

Notsuretoputit · 23/03/2024 12:36

I try my best to live heathily (although definitely not fanatical). I try and stay away from ultra processed foods, try and avoid saturated fat, too much meat etc., try and exercise every week. I’ll have the odd takeaway and definitely overindulge on wine, but always try and be mindful of living heathily because so much information is constantly battering me through the radio, media etc. about getting ill from various foods and not exercising.

I’ve recently lost my mother far too young too, so I suppose it’s particularly on my mind at the moment. But then you hear Kate’s diagnosis, who obviously exercises regularly, has the best instructors, best food, best ingredients, best preparation, and she still falls ill, and it all seems a bit pointless.

AIBU to feel this way? I just wonder whether I really should make an effort to watch what I eat and run when I don’t feel like it if really, what will be will be regardless.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:25

Where is your evidence that they are over prescribed?
Especially to young people?

Or is that just another spurious claim without evidence?

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:28

High cholesterol is a symptom of something else in the body - of course.

What things in particular?

Diet?
Genetic issues?

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:31

Quizine · 25/03/2024 19:13

I had high cholesterol for a long time and was advised statins. I didn't want them and tried the usual things we are told to do to reduce it. It did reduce a bit over time but not by that much. I'm now just at the recommended total level with a slightly higher LDL than HDL.

Anyway during a recent hospital stay for cardiac AFib I was given a cardiac CT scan and had a zero score of calcium (can block arteries - plaque) so having had high cholesterol for many years it didn't seem to cause any blocked arteries anyway. I dunno, it's all a bit mad if you ask me. Who do we listen to, ourselves I think!

Yes and this is what I’m talking about. And this is common as I talk amongst my clients. But no I don’t have any research to show that. Therefore you must be right.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:33

That was to @cakeorwine but anyway I feel that statin chat is derailing the thread.

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:37

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:31

Yes and this is what I’m talking about. And this is common as I talk amongst my clients. But no I don’t have any research to show that. Therefore you must be right.

Must be right?

What must I be right about?
What clients?

I have asked you to say what the big side effects are? You haven't posted any
I have said that if someone was possibly going to be prescribed statins, then there are a lot of factors to consider - specifically the risk of not being prescribed them (the QRISK data) versus the potential side effects - and it's not just cholesterol that's important.

I have asked you about what evidence you have for over prescription in people - you haven't posted anything.

You sound like my teenage son when he gets asked to back up his claim.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:39

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:37

Must be right?

What must I be right about?
What clients?

I have asked you to say what the big side effects are? You haven't posted any
I have said that if someone was possibly going to be prescribed statins, then there are a lot of factors to consider - specifically the risk of not being prescribed them (the QRISK data) versus the potential side effects - and it's not just cholesterol that's important.

I have asked you about what evidence you have for over prescription in people - you haven't posted anything.

You sound like my teenage son when he gets asked to back up his claim.

There are side effects on the back of the packet. Are you actually claiming they have no side effects? How bizarre. I have listed them (can you not read?) you say I haven’t. Do you need a peer reviewed study or do you not trust what is written as side effects on the packet and on the NHS website as common side effects?

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:40

It's not derailing - it's about data, absolute risks, relative risks and good quality research.

Also large studies - not personal anecdotes about "Well I had statins but they didn't do me any good / weren't needed " etc

I guess some people don't like scientific studies with lots of people.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:40

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:40

It's not derailing - it's about data, absolute risks, relative risks and good quality research.

Also large studies - not personal anecdotes about "Well I had statins but they didn't do me any good / weren't needed " etc

I guess some people don't like scientific studies with lots of people.

You don’t need data and research to read the side effects on the back of a packet.

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:41

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:39

There are side effects on the back of the packet. Are you actually claiming they have no side effects? How bizarre. I have listed them (can you not read?) you say I haven’t. Do you need a peer reviewed study or do you not trust what is written as side effects on the packet and on the NHS website as common side effects?

I am not claiming there are no side effects.

I am saying that the side effects have to be balanced against the benefits.

You said "big side effects" - really? Can you name them?

Again - you sound like someone who can't read a thread.

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:42

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:40

You don’t need data and research to read the side effects on the back of a packet.

You do need data and studies to understand the relative risks of the side effects versus the overall effect to you.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:43

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:41

I am not claiming there are no side effects.

I am saying that the side effects have to be balanced against the benefits.

You said "big side effects" - really? Can you name them?

Again - you sound like someone who can't read a thread.

For the second time ‘common side effects include - fatigue, headaches, digestive issues, muscle pain, nausea, to list a few.

So yes absolutely that needs to be weighed up with the risk of the individual to heart disease. That is my point. If the only symptom is high cholesterol then no I don’t think the risk is worth it in an otherwise healthy individual.

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 19:48

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:43

For the second time ‘common side effects include - fatigue, headaches, digestive issues, muscle pain, nausea, to list a few.

So yes absolutely that needs to be weighed up with the risk of the individual to heart disease. That is my point. If the only symptom is high cholesterol then no I don’t think the risk is worth it in an otherwise healthy individual.

High cholesterol needs to be looked at along with other risk factors - such as age, BMI, exercise etc - which is in the QRISK questionaire and the NICE guidelines as posted

At no point did I say nothing concerned me or not about statin prescription.
At no point did I express an opinion on cholesterol levels and prescribing

You keep saying they are overprescribed - but you haven't posted any actual evidence.

But that's not unusual for people making claims on the internet.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:59

I mean it doesn’t take much searching to find studies showing this. Maybe Johns Hopkins is not good enough? I doubt I’m the only person who suspects statins are overprescribed and money and big pharma come in to this. It’s good to question - even doctors. I really don’t think I’m alone in being suspicious of pharmaceutical companies and profits..

For many health issues we throw medication and pills at them (with all the side effects they come with) without exploring other avenues. Absolutely medication is needed is some cases but not all. I am allowed to be suspicious of this. It’s a discussion forum. My views are my own. Of course you disagree.

To think the PoW’s diagnosis makes healthy living seem pointless?
cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:00

Delatron · 25/03/2024 19:59

I mean it doesn’t take much searching to find studies showing this. Maybe Johns Hopkins is not good enough? I doubt I’m the only person who suspects statins are overprescribed and money and big pharma come in to this. It’s good to question - even doctors. I really don’t think I’m alone in being suspicious of pharmaceutical companies and profits..

For many health issues we throw medication and pills at them (with all the side effects they come with) without exploring other avenues. Absolutely medication is needed is some cases but not all. I am allowed to be suspicious of this. It’s a discussion forum. My views are my own. Of course you disagree.

2010?

Cutting edge study there...

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:01

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:00

2010?

Cutting edge study there...

Disagree?

Once again, I haven't expressed any opinion.

Just asked for evidence. Asking for evidence is not agreeing or disagreeing.

Would you agree?

Delatron · 25/03/2024 20:02

Oh have statins changed recently?

There are loads of newer studies in the book another poster linked (it’s by 2 cardiac doctors). I suggest you read - it’s good to educate yourself and not blindly accept what huge companies going after profits want you to believe.

Delatron · 25/03/2024 20:06

I could go on but it’s boring for everyone I’m sure.

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:08

Delatron · 25/03/2024 20:02

Oh have statins changed recently?

There are loads of newer studies in the book another poster linked (it’s by 2 cardiac doctors). I suggest you read - it’s good to educate yourself and not blindly accept what huge companies going after profits want you to believe.

Once again - you seem to think I have expressed an opinion

Reading books is interesting - as long as you are getting a view that is not selective reading and quoting.

Statins haven't changed - but has the prescription guidance in the UK changed at all since 2010?

Has NICE guidelines been changed? Updated to reflect risk / benefit?

Maybe they are? Maybe they are not? Who knows.

Would I take a statin if I was at a particular QRISK level? I would read the guidance, look at the data and make a decision.

CG181 Patient decision aid on should I take a statin? (nice.org.uk)

NICE recommends statins should be a choice for more people to prevent heart attacks and strokes - BHF

Would you use this to help you make a decision?

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng238/resources/patient-decision-aid-on-should-i-take-a-statin-pdf-243780159

MikeRafone · 25/03/2024 20:09

@Quizine

what was your total cholesterol and what was your ratio before taking statins? do you know?

Im curios as to how you get a test to see what deposits are in your arteries ?

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:10

Delatron · 25/03/2024 20:06

__

You'll have read the recent guidelines and advice to people then.
Published in 2023

Because of concerns about statin prescription

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:12

Guidelines based on research, risk, absolute risk, looking at variables and seeing the impact of various variables on health outcomes.

Which is relevant to the OP.

Justpontificating · 25/03/2024 20:14

Jan 2023 article here re: statin use guidance from NICE
’ GPS to prescribe statins at a lower risk under updated NICE guidance.’

To think the PoW’s diagnosis makes healthy living seem pointless?
Justpontificating · 25/03/2024 20:16

OldMam · 25/03/2024 12:37

Yes, that’s the myth, still being perpetuated, still lingering in the mainstream, still causing harm, but based on faulty, interest-driven bad science. Saturated fat is perfectly healthy, ‘high cholesterol’ is not life-threatening. They want you to take statins. They want you to eat ultra processed petrochemical by-products instead of butter . Course they do. Be sceptical. Read more widely. https://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=l6sEEAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=cholesterol+misinformation&ots=FQxwcozOsY&sig=7ML_em7Y0QbFVO6UlyxnsJXE_0o&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=cholesterol%20misinformation&f=false

It’s not a myth
Its nhs guidance based on fact not someone trying to sell their book.🤯

cakeorwine · 25/03/2024 20:16

Justpontificating · 25/03/2024 20:14

Jan 2023 article here re: statin use guidance from NICE
’ GPS to prescribe statins at a lower risk under updated NICE guidance.’

Exactly

Using data, research, large studies and not personal anecdotes to give guidance to people.