Am I missing something? Religion.

[ButterflyTable]

I will caveat this by saying there was a point in my life when I was religious. However I now just feel religion is created by men; about men for men.

I look at women around me who are friends and religious, and their religion oppresses them. Much more than men.

I want to believe in God, or a higher power. But nothing in this world leads me to think there is a God as such. Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth.

Religion to me seems about control, rituals, even having spent time around people of multiple faiths, in their holy buildings - I feel something, I hear a hymn, a call to prayer, I’ve sang I a church congregation. I’ve sat in Temples, I’ve been in Muslim countries and heard the prayers, I’ve experienced and read about a number of faiths. To the extent they all say pretty much the same thing, but I cannot believe in God.

I also feel faith holds people back. I’ve seen a lot wrong done by very religious people.

I've not read every comment, so not sure if someone answered this! God hasn't sent another messenger as there is no need to. Jesus fulfilled that role, he did everything that was required and through his work our relationship with God has been restored! The thing with christianity is there are no rules you need to follow, unlike other religions. A lot are based on works and doing good, doing the right thing, following laws and commands etc, which I'd definitely fail at!! I muck up every day, but God's grace covers that!! Its definitely not oppressing - I feel totally free as a woman in church. Nowhere in the bible tells me a man is better than me and churches that say otherwise have very much added their own beliefs!!

Yanbu. It's all bullshit and most/ all religions are indeed about oppression and control.

Sure, some of them have put a nice face on it all, but that doesn't excuse the fact that all of these institutions are rotten to the core.

not sure if it is just me, but there is a lot of 'bashing' in these threads. from my observation, the bigger % is people who don't believe saying all religious faiths are ridiculous, stupid etc. etc

can we not have these discussions in a more respectful way? every one is entitled to their opinion, but isn't it more productive to explain their beliefs/non belief in a constructive way instead of just insulting the faith/non faith and the people who espouse it?

I know what you mean. When I tried to explain my belief in the Easter Bunny and Father Christmas people were rude and laughed. Can you believe it!

@Dazzledee I’m sorry but knowing what ‘man’ is capable of, I cannot believe that a man was sent to be the Son of God, to represent what god is to us.

thank you for providing an example of what I meant. although at least you are not being rude.

I hold very different opinions and beliefs to probably most people on this thread but would never ridicule or insult them. there is such a thing as agree to disagree. and when we start from that point, it's possible to learn from each other even when i still don't agree with the other, sometimes it ends up with me learning something about myself and my own faith. I am not saying not we shouldn't challenge each other, just keep it civilised and be open minded

That's kind of the point, though. In becoming fully human, Jesus became a "second Adam", a perfect, sinless human and by stooping down to the level of humanity, he raised up humans to his divinity, making it possible for humans to have eternal life.

In Jesus, God experienced the very worst of what humans are capable of. And by becoming fully human, he redeemed our fallen humanity.

I was brought up in a religion that I still practise. When my DH died, I found the rituals of my religion very comforting. Similarly, when one of my DC went seriously off the rails, I reminded myself that God never gives you more than you can bear, so I knew that I would get through the horrors I was experiencing. I am now proud at how much DC has achieved after turning themself around.

I try to be a better person by asking myself "what would Jesus do?" but I'm no saint and have to fight the inner bitch in me all the time! I use my religion to reflect on my actions and acknowledge when I have let myself down. I'm not into following the Bible slavishly and have been known to question the Bishop and church hierarchy when I disagree.

Thing is why are strange and odd beliefs meant to be treated with respect? If I said I still believed in Father Christmas, mermaids or pixies should that belief be respected?

"strange and odd beliefs" who are you to define what is strange and odd? 85% of the world is religious. Not believing in a deity or deities is an outlier, historically and sociologically speaking. I think that's a reason to come to the discussion from a starting point of respect.

I don't believe in any of it and I feel my life is better as a result. I don't understand why a faith or religion could help me on my path through life. I do that myself. I'm my own god. I have faith in myself to be good.

Just because a lot of people believe in something does not make it sensible, true or logical.

Read this today. It's interesting. I have the same opinion, it was complete social control.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/mar/23/medieval-christian-misogyny-shapes-how-we-judge-women-today-says-scholar

I said goodbye to religion over a decade ago. The priest could not be bothered turning up to an appointment that I had made with him to ask why his God kept on giving me depression, no matter that I was compliant with all treatment, yet the priest phoned me the following week to ask why I had stopped giving the church money. I told him to go and kiss the Pope's backside ( not the word used). Since then I have enjoyed lie-ins every Sunday and have not yet been struck by lightning. Neither has the ground opened up to swallow me.

"Strange" and "odd" were the words I was disputing. I don't think something can be strange or odd if practised by the majority of people. I think those are words used for less common things. I didn't say anything about sensible, true or logical. Faith is not logical.

What ethical framework do you use for deciding what is "good"?

even if I disagreed with you (i dont believe in those things or santa or easter bunny - neither do christians believe in santa or easter bunny - i am happy to be corrected) , I certainly wouldn't necessarily feel the need to ridicule or insult you?

I lots of people in this country believe in faeries or spirits. they describe and express it in different ways. if you speak to pagans, they can describe the deeper aspects of their beliefs. if we start from a position of ridiculing others' beliefs, how can we hope to understand them?

The question that started this thread was what are they missing in religion. In that context it's fair enough for a person to say they find it ridiculous, illogical, stupid, cruel etc because ...

Who defines logic? Who dictates what is or isn’t sensible?

7.79 billion is the current estimate of the population of the world that is religious. If you are atheist you are in the minority. What gives you the authority to dictate what is and isn’t logical? There are perfectly valid logical arguments for the existence of a deity.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

Statistically belief in a deity/deities is the norm.

No one actually believes in the Easter Bunny or “Father Christmas” as he exists in modern culture.

I do actually believe in Saint Nicholas, as in I believe he existed, but he isn’t a deity to be worshipped.

This just makes you look foolish, or deeply ignorant.

There are a great many people who are deeply religious, and believe in God (although not all religions have a god or gods,) who are highly educated and very intelligent people, who are religious from an intellectual perspective. Whether you want to talk about someone like Plantinga, Charles Taylor, Doris Day, Ivan Illich, Wendell Berry, Alistair McGrath, Tolkien, (just to name some Christian ones and there are also plenty from other traditions) or some of the great intellectuals of history - comparing their thinking to belief in the Easter bunny just makes you look shallow and parochial.

it's OK @WhatWhereWho if you don't see the value of civilised debate, I don't think I can persuade you :-) . I am going to leave it here.

Personally, my ethical framework is about ensuring I do not hurt others, either emotionally, physically or psychologically. I don’t need to be told that I’ll go to hell in order to be a decent person. I believe we all have one life and our time on this earth and I would absolutely do my best to not make someone’s else’s time worse due to my actions

Thank you!

I have more or less given up trying to explain myself on MN then it comes to faith and religion.

There is very often this tone of "Is your IQ that low? haha" in these threads and (possibly surprisingly to some) mine is very well above average. Being religious isn't equal to stupid. And it is very often said between lines at this place.

My degree of theology from a Nordic university took 6 years of studies and included studying ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew. Most books were in German. Not a walk in the park.

You loose any desire for a dialogue when most of the time you don't meet with just a little respect.

What ethical framework do you use for deciding what is "good"?

@IsthisthereallifeIsthisjustfantasy

My own. Is what I'm doing going to hurt anyone else? No? Then crack on. Yes it will hurt people but it's necessary? Then crack on. I have NEVER been brought up around religion in my family and I have managed not to break the law or kill anyone without having a religious guide.