Am I missing something? Religion.

[ButterflyTable]

I will caveat this by saying there was a point in my life when I was religious. However I now just feel religion is created by men; about men for men.

I look at women around me who are friends and religious, and their religion oppresses them. Much more than men.

I want to believe in God, or a higher power. But nothing in this world leads me to think there is a God as such. Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth.

Religion to me seems about control, rituals, even having spent time around people of multiple faiths, in their holy buildings - I feel something, I hear a hymn, a call to prayer, I’ve sang I a church congregation. I’ve sat in Temples, I’ve been in Muslim countries and heard the prayers, I’ve experienced and read about a number of faiths. To the extent they all say pretty much the same thing, but I cannot believe in God.

I also feel faith holds people back. I’ve seen a lot wrong done by very religious people.

Absolutely, you’re right about the art, architecture etc. It’s very possible to value that without valuing the belief it stems from. I adore poking around churches.

i do think religious people are often happier. I am currently going through a very tough time in my life, with circumstances I have no control over. My mum is visiting temples and praying on my behalf. I wish I could believe that would help. I don't really. Which makes me fell quite alone.

I became a Christian in my twenties because - after spending a long time reading the Bible and reading about the Bible, I became convinced that it was true.

Once I was convinced of that, if there a were parts I struggled with I trusted that God knew better than me, just as when there are problems in my life or awful things in the world which I wish were different.

Pre-christian, very-feminist me, would have been shocked by the different me. And, although this isn't the reason for it, I have noticed that amongst Christians I have never felt of ogled, objectified, threatened, belittled, insulted, patronised. Of course that's the least women deserve! But it's really not my experience in the world at large.

I want to believe in God, or a higher power.

This makes no sense to me tbh. Either you believe in something or you don't. Saying you want to believe in a deity or a higher power is basically just an admission that you don't believe in one, but you want to pretend to yourself that you do.

It's not just religion though, is it. EVERYTHING is made 'by men, for men'. We've made progress in lots of places, but even so there's a definite lean towards men, most of the time.

Religion is an archaic concept from when people couldn't explain illness and thunderstorms any other way. We now have science. Don't allow yourself to be oppressed by something that's actually utter bollocks anyway.

It's different for everyone of course but the Catholic church has a very long track record of oppression. Once I saw it, I was horrified and absolutely couldn't unsee it. I didn't baptise my child (which was quite unusual at the time) and ensured that she's never had to go to a Catholic school. Like I said above, I know lots of people find great comfort in their religion which is great, but let's not pretend that oppression hasn't been used by major religions until relatively recently at least.

Why? I don't get this. There are quite a few things that science has no cure for. Especially now the NHS isn't working. I think a higher power would be comforting for me if I could bring myself to believe.

I don't know, I have a family member that holds their faith dear. And it keeps them going. Prays for the boat people struggling off our shores. And at the same time votes Tory. They've a pretty good PMA, doesn't like to think ill or bad of many or any situation.

I was reading about the gut micro-biome, how it's now seen to be a second brain. And that same biome is influenced heavily by soils. The earth on our doorsteps. There's some mind blowing interconnectedness going on that's hard to fathom.

Whereas I think the Church’s manual for life bears all the biases of having been evolved by an all-male institution for the misogynistic control of female sexuality, and most of whose encyclicals from the last few centuries very obviously bear the hallmarks of having been evolved by (in theory) celibate men living at a distance from the mass of people, having sex, living in family/marital relationships, having children etc.

Quite apart from the historic abuses, individual and institutional, the Church is still failing to fully acknowledge (or pay for), why would anyone regard as credible a ‘manual’ for living life written by people who don’t live that life by definition? It is like buying a car manual written by someone who’s never driven one, only viewed others doing so at a distance.

I would say that as a Catholic you are missing something, but your post indicates that you do have a sense of God, whatever it is you choose to call it.

My religion doesn't control me and I very much feel that the main religions are 'from God' 'for everyone'.

The patriarchal society we live in, particularly in the past set up the religions so we have male Catholic priests and immans, rabbis etc. Women have a role in the church too. The church is all of us.

A church is made up of people and people do bad things. It's a mistake to expect perfection from humanity.

I don't think a doctrine of forgiveness and tolerance and doing good things for others is generally a bad way to live. You can still do that without faith too.

My faith is very important to me and I pray that others may find God's support too, including you OP. Don't be offended I just want good things for you.

Yes. I do. Is it a problem?

We can agree to disagree on it. I'm not here to convince anyone, just saying how it is for me and my family.

Always great fun!

YANBU. Organised religion is about fear and control. It is utterly antithetical to reason. The only hope for progress in the world is for people to throw off the shackles of religion. It’s a kind of mental slavery.

Religion and faith are two different things though aren't they. And you're of course correct that it's a mistake to expect perfection from humans, but for so long, that's exactly what churches were doing. The hypocrisy was unbelievable tbh. You can see why people turned their backs on the church for this very reason.

Does it have jokes? You always seem like a nice and reasonable poster on here. I would like to imagine you looking dashing in a dog collar, delivering pithy and intelligent sermons to a receptive congregation. (I grew up Catholic and despite many years in the UK after women’s ordination, I still find women priests exotic and interesting…)

All religion, just like all man made ideologies, oppress women. That is the raisin d’etre of these ideologies. Why? Because women have a power that no man can ever have - we create life within us. it’s quite ironic that in all religions “god” a man, naturally, is the creator!! Whereas in real life, women are the creators.

Men have always been jealous of this and sought to reduce its wonder by oppressing women. Once you see that, the need to be part of any religion or other women hating ideology , disappears.

It's ALL jokes as loads of children there

I'm dressing up as a fucking rabbit too

And doing a drama 😂

Why? I don't get this. There are quite a few things that science has no cure for. Especially now the NHS isn't working. I think a higher power would be comforting for me if I could bring myself to believe.

Because it's basically a desire to be fooled. To believe in something you think isn't true. Presumably quite a lot of people who say they believe in god actually either aren't sure, or deep down know on some level that they don't actually believe.

I sometimes wonder... if you asked a person 'Is there a god(s)/higher power?' and asked them to press a 'yes' button or a 'no' button, and told them that if they got it wrong, they (or perhaps a loved one) would instantly be wiped off the face of the earth, (but that nobody else would know what button they chose), how many people would really press 'yes'.

If you don't believe in a "creator" does that mean that a star just happened to explore and the ejecta just happened to land in certain orbits and one just happened to be at a certain distance and size to (eventually) support life and just happened to .... Etc etc? Not really any more unbelievable than divine intervention.
Christianity was initially a lot more welcoming to women on leadership positions, however I think it was around 1200 (sue me if the dates wrong) it became a lot more patriarchal. Angicanism and the church of England, as well as other protestant branches have now got women in preaching, as well as support and community roles. Should we banish a believe as being "anti-female" because of misogyny in the past?
Some religions are more welcoming to women and some are Very Intent in defining women as very subordinate. They tend to be the "leave us and we will kill you" which says it all.

We tend to think of our time as being just our lives - 80 or so years then.... nothing. Perhaps, (and this is were belief comes in) it goes on for longer...

@ButterflyTable faith and spirituality are subjective experiences. you are not unreasonable to feel how you feel in yourself but you are unreasonable to project your feelings to others.

I find faith and spirituality grants me liberation rather than oppression and know many many others like myself. ritual without meaning is oppression but when the inner realities of the rituals are understood and actualised, that is a totally different experience altogether. in my faith souls don't have gender and faith is mainly about souls.

men definitely use religions to their advantage. does not mean all religions are patriarchal/invented by men. tbh I usually have a problem with most of such generalising statements that begin with the word ALL

I would also be wary about making conclusions about any religions without truly studying them (don't know if you have or havent). anyone can go to a country of that religion, meet people, sit in churches, temples and mosques but come away without any understanding of the theology or spirituality very easily. observation does not equate knowledge. neither does knowledge equate experience or understanding. all three conditions have to be met before valid conclusions can be drawn.

Faith is a personal thing, religion is a man-made institution. So Christianity is believe in God and in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. But the Church of England and the Catholic Church etc. are man-made institutions that enable us to celebrate our faith together. You can believe in Christ without setting foot in a church. And you can attend church regularly without believing in Christ. And you can believe some of what an individual church or Church teaches without having to believe in all of it.

I don’t think, historically, religions that have goddesses are particularly renowned for treating the women in their societies any better than the ones that don’t.

Yes. True.Because men are men.

this is so true. and sometimes people who are very externally religious have 0 faith. and people who don't appear religious can have deep faith and spirituality