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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I missing something? Religion.

303 replies

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:04

I will caveat this by saying there was a point in my life when I was religious. However I now just feel religion is created by men; about men for men.

I look at women around me who are friends and religious, and their religion oppresses them. Much more than men.

I want to believe in God, or a higher power. But nothing in this world leads me to think there is a God as such. Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth.

Religion to me seems about control, rituals, even having spent time around people of multiple faiths, in their holy buildings - I feel something, I hear a hymn, a call to prayer, I’ve sang I a church congregation. I’ve sat in Temples, I’ve been in Muslim countries and heard the prayers, I’ve experienced and read about a number of faiths. To the extent they all say pretty much the same thing, but I cannot believe in God.

I also feel faith holds people back. I’ve seen a lot wrong done by very religious people.

OP posts:
Hopper123 · 23/03/2024 15:10

I have a strong faith in God but I think that religiosity and faith are two very different things. Often religion is born out of faith but becomes entwined with man-made traditions and religious laws that can sometimes be worthwhile and help bring people of the same faith together (e.g sacraments (an outer symbol (religion) of an inner working (personal faith)). but can also sometimes be used to oppress and manipulate. It happened in the bible itself with the pharisees who became so obsessed with their religion, the religious laws and traditions but not so much with actually having a living breathing faith.

fleurneige · 23/03/2024 15:24

Dacadactyl · 23/03/2024 12:38

I'm Catholic and never felt oppressed by my Faith.

I think the Church provides us with a good manual for living our lives with the Catechism.

Perhaps a modern Catholic in the UK. My dad was a Catholic, born early 20C. He married a Protestant who was divorced with a child. Now he could have told you about oppression from RC Church, congregation and family.

EarthaKittsVoice · 23/03/2024 15:42

I was raised in a matriarchal religion and I'm thankful for this as well as having parents who believed and spoke to me, as the beginning and the end. Any man will marry into my family I wouldn't be marrying into his. This is purely from a spiritual sense as well as the truth - because our children will be of my bloodline not his.

Now this teaching and belief is how I've lived my life but it's not the usual belief system in England where I was born and raised and where I am still. So therefore it has been a bit of a barrier on the dating market as England have a patriarchal belief system and most men think they are the beginning and the end.

I do not follow any religion and I believe there are many gods but there is a highest God. The highest God has had 7 names throughout the history of this world and several of them are feminine. I find many do not study other religions so therefore most do not know how they interwine.

AlizeeEasy · 23/03/2024 15:46

CampsieGlamper · 23/03/2024 14:18

If you don't believe in a "creator" does that mean that a star just happened to explore and the ejecta just happened to land in certain orbits and one just happened to be at a certain distance and size to (eventually) support life and just happened to .... Etc etc? Not really any more unbelievable than divine intervention.
Christianity was initially a lot more welcoming to women on leadership positions, however I think it was around 1200 (sue me if the dates wrong) it became a lot more patriarchal. Angicanism and the church of England, as well as other protestant branches have now got women in preaching, as well as support and community roles. Should we banish a believe as being "anti-female" because of misogyny in the past?
Some religions are more welcoming to women and some are Very Intent in defining women as very subordinate. They tend to be the "leave us and we will kill you" which says it all.

We tend to think of our time as being just our lives - 80 or so years then.... nothing. Perhaps, (and this is were belief comes in) it goes on for longer...

I’m an atheist, I don’t make any claims about how life began.

it is worth pointing out though that the Big Bang theory wasn’t just made up by a few scientists as a story, it is based in scientific theory. (I’m not a scientist, so don’t ask me for specifics 😆) but I dont think it can be classified as ‘just as believable as a magic dude in the sky’

Didimum · 23/03/2024 15:48

I detest religion in almost all its forms. But that’s just me.

Toadonaroll · 23/03/2024 15:49

Believing in a benevolent Christian god who created the universe with umpteen billion stars, but apparently cares about the moral code each of us follows, makes no sense to me.
I can follow my own moral code. Which of course overlaps hugely with most religious e.g. be kind, don't kill etc.

Didimum · 23/03/2024 16:55

CampsieGlamper · 23/03/2024 14:18

If you don't believe in a "creator" does that mean that a star just happened to explore and the ejecta just happened to land in certain orbits and one just happened to be at a certain distance and size to (eventually) support life and just happened to .... Etc etc? Not really any more unbelievable than divine intervention.
Christianity was initially a lot more welcoming to women on leadership positions, however I think it was around 1200 (sue me if the dates wrong) it became a lot more patriarchal. Angicanism and the church of England, as well as other protestant branches have now got women in preaching, as well as support and community roles. Should we banish a believe as being "anti-female" because of misogyny in the past?
Some religions are more welcoming to women and some are Very Intent in defining women as very subordinate. They tend to be the "leave us and we will kill you" which says it all.

We tend to think of our time as being just our lives - 80 or so years then.... nothing. Perhaps, (and this is were belief comes in) it goes on for longer...

If you don't believe in a "creator" does that mean that a star just happened to explore and the ejecta just happened to land in certain orbits and one just happened to be at a certain distance and size to (eventually) support life and just happened to .... Etc etc? Not really any more unbelievable than divine intervention.

Umm … I think some further science education might be beneficial here. There are over 100 billion stars in the Milky Way alone, and an estimated one septillion stars in the universe. When you have have colossal magnitude of stellar and planetary activity happening, then yes, the chances of planets ending up with the right conditions to support life coming about somewhere in the universe are not only very highly, they are a given. I find it difficult to believe how grown adults can’t comprehend basic probability.

WhatWhereWho · 23/03/2024 17:07

I should declare my bias - I am an atheist. I think there are s few questions here. (1) Why do you want to believe in a god? (2) The anti-women and sexist nature of religions gives a reason to disbelieve in those specific religions but if they were non-sexist they would still be wrong.(3) The concept of a god is questionable and especially if the claim of an all-powerful one then even more so. As to:

"Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth."

What does that even mean? That's as baffling as any religious nonsense.

Dogdilemma2000 · 23/03/2024 17:11

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:15

@Dogdilemma2000 but do you feel controlled? Do you think you could lead your life in a good way without god? Do you feel you need that guidance?

I think you are confusing God and religion.

Can I live without man made religious rules? Absolutely.

Can I live without a belief in a higher power? No. I tried in my teens but I fundamentally believe there is a higher power. I’ve jumped through a couple belief systems- one of which had no rules beyond not hurting other people.

What part of that makes you think I’m oppressed? I’ve since been on senior leadership level of my religion. I’ve stood at the front and preached. I moved away from that particular group, but I am certainly not oppressed or under any rules that the men aren't under.

Favouritefruits · 23/03/2024 17:11

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:21

@MumChp and your belief in God is absolute, you believe genuinely that 2000 years ago an entity known as God sent his son to Earth?

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago.

Why has God not sent another messenger?

I asked my friend why god hadn’t sent another messenger, she’s the wife of a vicar and she said “why does he need too”

it’s a load of nonsense in my opinion, I totally agree it’s for men and designed by men!

WhatWhereWho · 23/03/2024 17:11

EarthaKittsVoice · 23/03/2024 15:42

I was raised in a matriarchal religion and I'm thankful for this as well as having parents who believed and spoke to me, as the beginning and the end. Any man will marry into my family I wouldn't be marrying into his. This is purely from a spiritual sense as well as the truth - because our children will be of my bloodline not his.

Now this teaching and belief is how I've lived my life but it's not the usual belief system in England where I was born and raised and where I am still. So therefore it has been a bit of a barrier on the dating market as England have a patriarchal belief system and most men think they are the beginning and the end.

I do not follow any religion and I believe there are many gods but there is a highest God. The highest God has had 7 names throughout the history of this world and several of them are feminine. I find many do not study other religions so therefore most do not know how they interwine.

Which one? Believing in a matriarchal religion than a patriarchal religion does not make it any more real or true.

Dogdilemma2000 · 23/03/2024 17:23

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:21

@MumChp and your belief in God is absolute, you believe genuinely that 2000 years ago an entity known as God sent his son to Earth?

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago.

Why has God not sent another messenger?

You’ve very clearly demonstrated in this post that you know incredibly little about world religions.

Scientology started in the 50’s. As did Wicca.

Dogdilemma2000 · 23/03/2024 17:26

Favouritefruits · 23/03/2024 17:11

I asked my friend why god hadn’t sent another messenger, she’s the wife of a vicar and she said “why does he need too”

it’s a load of nonsense in my opinion, I totally agree it’s for men and designed by men!

Assuming you’re looking g at the Christian faith, Jesus wasn’t a messanger, he was the son of God sent to redeem mankind. There is no expectation of a messenger until end times. However many could argue that great Christian leaders over the years could be prophets/messangers.

KnittedCardi · 23/03/2024 17:32

Believeinsomethingreal · 23/03/2024 12:28

Why don’t you just create your own ‘religion’ if you feel you need that ‘base’ for things in your life - it’s what I’ve done and I teach my children according to my own set of beliefs. You can then leave all the rituals behind and focus on the day to day living by the morals and beliefs you want to incorporate into your daily life.

That's essentially Humanism

App13 · 23/03/2024 17:34

I'm religious and empowered. Every step I take , I take it faith and belief and honestly don't know where I would be without it given what I've been through since early years

Gettingbysomehow · 23/03/2024 17:37

People follow religion because they need hope. They don't want to believe that you live for a few years then don't exist for billions of years.

Tellmeifimwrong · 23/03/2024 17:48

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:21

@MumChp and your belief in God is absolute, you believe genuinely that 2000 years ago an entity known as God sent his son to Earth?

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago.

Why has God not sent another messenger?

There is an Abrahamic religion newer than Sikhism - look up the Baha'i faith.
I've had the same questions as you, op. But as pp said, it's not just religion, everything is made for men by men.
@EarthaKittsVoice is it the Korean church of the heavenly mother?

QuickDraining · 23/03/2024 18:30

@WhatWhereWho

"Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth."

"What does that even mean? That's as baffling as any religious nonsense."

Sounds like a big ball of fire in the sky - just one example.

IsthisthereallifeIsthisjustfantasy · 23/03/2024 19:12

I would say what you are "missing" is what Rudolph Otto called the "numinous". The sense of awe/wonder/mystery that people experience across different religions. What Samuel Wesley described as feeling his heart "strangely warmed".

I think for most people, religion is predominantly a feeling/experience and the logical side is less important.

IsthisthereallifeIsthisjustfantasy · 23/03/2024 19:15

ButterflyTable · 23/03/2024 12:21

@MumChp and your belief in God is absolute, you believe genuinely that 2000 years ago an entity known as God sent his son to Earth?

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago.

Why has God not sent another messenger?

you believe genuinely that 2000 years ago an entity known as God sent his son to Earth

All Christians believe this. It's one of the foundational beliefs, set out in the creeds. I don't think you can really be a Christian without believing this.

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago.

Why has God not sent another messenger?

Christians believe that Jesus wasn't just a "messenger", but God incarnate and that his death and resurrection made salvation possible. It was a once and for all, perfect sacrifice. There isn't any need for God to send any one else.

TempestTost · 23/03/2024 19:18

Why are there no real new religions? Granted I know Sikhism is the ‘newest’ of the major religions, but that was still 500 years ago

By definition a major religion is one of the largest and most influential in shaping cultures, across the whole world.

Chances are it is going to take a while for any religion to have that kind of cultural influence - generations and generations.

Maybe in 1000 years Scientology will get there.😬

QuickDraining · 23/03/2024 19:28

Why are there no real new religions?

Christianity is pretty modern. Jesus was only about 80 generations back or some such. I touch earth from over 70 million years ago daily. A thousand or so years by comparison is nothing.

There's still newer variations like the Latter day Saints.

TheFancyPoet · 23/03/2024 19:29

You have confused yourself by serving too many religions. The supernatural world is very real and quite dangerous if you dip your toes wherever your fancy leads you.

Pick the gospels, and start in John. Go to church for Easter, I doubt you will find a single Anglican church who oppresses women. Give God a chance ....

TheFancyPoet · 23/03/2024 19:30

Dacadactyl · 23/03/2024 12:38

I'm Catholic and never felt oppressed by my Faith.

I think the Church provides us with a good manual for living our lives with the Catechism.

My mother in law is catholic also and the woman ruled and still rules 4 men in her life! 2 husbands and 2 sons. LOL.

critikalthinkin · 23/03/2024 19:31

"Granted I think there is energy, something out there perhaps connected to our ancestors or the Earth"

@ButterflyTable have you ever studied physics or biology? They might help you frame that thought.

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