Want to move to have a smaller mortgage/better standard of living

[littlealex2021]

My DW and I are in the lucky situation where we have a 4 bed house near London which means its worth far more than it really is worth (if you see what I mean). I would like to move after my first DD finishes GCSEs but before my second DD starts hers. This gives us a window of about a year or so. The pros are from my perspective:

1. Can be almost mortgage free
2. Can move to where there are even better schools than where we are now
3. Can have a much bigger but still manageable house which will be important I think as the kids will probably be with us until age 30 based on current trends
4. Will still be less than 1.5 hours from London
5. Can enjoy the fruits of our labour now before we want to downsize in about maybe 10 years or so.

There are many more benefits but too many to list (from my perspective). My DW agrees basically with all those benefits but she is kind of putting her foot down and saying she will not move. This is partially as her mum (80) lives nearby (she would still only be an hour away) but also claims that we will lose money as we are leaving the London area, I have pointed out our new house will almost certainly also gain in value and quality of life is worth more surely!

I'm quite upset and down about this and don't know how to try and persuade her. We are both 53 and have a £190k mortgage which we could reduce to less than £50k, still travel into central London when needed for work (maybe twice a month atm) but enjoy the big kitchen, ensuite bathrooms garden, countryside etc that comes with being away from the capital. AIBU?

You can't persuade someone to agree to your values over hers

The house is big enough for her and she likes the location and being close to an elderly mother is important to her

What does she need to do to persuade you to stay ?

And it's bad to move children at that age if not necessary - friends are so important to teens

My DDs all want to move as it happens although of course they may not be considering all the ramifications. I forgot to mention, a big aspect for me is that the mortgage went up £400 after that blinking Truss person ruined the economy and that £400 is basically like burning money. In reply to @midgetastic, she agrees with me on the pros I've mentioned but I just think as she's lived in this area most of her life she is just a bit scared of it...

Would it be possible to find a house with a granny annex and move MIL with you? My mum is 82 and lives round the corner from me, increasingly needs more help with things like meals, shopping, cleaning etc which I am happy to do. I can't imagine moving an hour away from her now to be honest.

I wouldn’t move 1.5 hrs away from my mum either.

I can see her point - my mum is in her 80s and there's a massive difference between being round the corner and an hour away. For that reason, I'd refuse too.

I think being in or v near London is surely great for teens / young adults too? I know they could travel in, but even better if they don't have to.

He elderly mum could decline very quickly and suddenly she's having to travel an hour to see her every day, probably more than once.

Have you done the sums, moving costs, solicitors and Estate agents and stamp duty all add up to a huge amount. Add on redecorating and new kitchen and bathroom costs . And new furniture
dont forget travel once or twice a week for a two hour round trip to visit MIL.

i wonder if this makes staying put a better bargain

In her position I wouldn't move either. I am just under 2 hours away from my Mum who is late 70s. It is too far to be helpful enough.

I am also 53 and my plan is to stay where I am until I can afford to retire. At that point the aim is to move to a cheaper area to free up some money. I am far keener to move than my husband is, but it will need to happen then.

This is not a good stage of your MIL's life for you to be moving away if she's currently just around the corner. An hour away is a 2-hour round-trip, which if your DW wants or needs to visit regularly will be a total fucking nightmare. At 80, she could live independently and happily for another 10 years, or she could need significant support at any time - you just don't know which way it will go.

I can totally see why you want to move and your financial arguments are sound, but I think unless you can take your MIL with you it's a non-starter. And even if you do take her, it won't be easy and could well make her wholly dependent on your DW for her social life, support, etc. I'd think very carefully, if I were you, and look at all the options available, such as remortgage, moving to a cheaper property locally, other ways to cut your costs, etc.

have you checked the curriculum is the same where you are vs where you want to move? We moved when I was in high school & what was being taught in the school before the move wasn’t the same as what was taught after the move & I had an absolute nightmare not only trying to settle into a new area, make new friends etc but I had to overcome different books being used in English lit GCSE, different things in my triple sciences, different focus on maths etc. It was really really hard to manage everything.

also with moving into a new area you aren’t guaranteed a place at the new school if they are over subbed. Schools are a nightmare at the mo, too many students & not enough placements. I wouldn’t consider moving part way through high school unless it was some sort of emergency situation

also with moving into a new area you aren’t guaranteed a place at the new school if they are over subbed. Schools are a nightmare at the mo, too many students & not enough placements.

This is also an important point.

2003-2012 were 'bulge' years for births in the UK and around here (about an hour's commute into central London so prime real estate for people wanting to move out of London and swap their flat for a house with a garden), the schools are a) very good and b) completely over-subscribed. My kids were born within those years and it can be really hard to find a good school that has spaces for in-year transfers and it tends to be the less desirable schools that do.

Main out is dw is away from mum

Would mil move with you

A two hour journey (there and back) every time she needs to travel to see her DM is unreasonable. How often does she see her DM at the moment? Are you volunteering to take over most of the visits? If your DW visits her mother twice a week / four times a week now, if you offer go most of the time, that might change things.

It sounds at the moment like you would be significantly bettering your own quality of life at the expense of the quality of life of your DW. Either get MIL to move with you, come up with a way for you to take on the majority of the burden of an elderly parent living an hour away (since you are the one who wants to move) or give up the idea until MIL passes.

Is there space for a lodger maybe .If you are not using all your bedrooms ? If not and your wife wants to stay, then you are at an impasse really.London prices will increase more than outer suburbs I expect .

@littlealex2021
Liz Truss didn't ruin the economy the government did, they just set her up as the fall guy.

Your pros are all about the financial side. Rather than ask how to persuade your wife have you listened to , and considered her reasons? Other than her mother being close by? Is it an hour or about an hour or more, is that in a car or public transport? Because that is quite a distance when your mother is 80 and you are used to being close to each other.

When she says you will lose money leaving London, is she right? It's a big decision for her if she knows that once she leaves she can never afford to go back to the place she has always lived and loved.

I think being close to her mum is better in the long run … your MIL at some stage will need increased care - how will that occur with an hours trip.

What are your daughters plan for after school/ university are they more likely to stay in London? If so wouldn’t it be better for you to stay too - they will visit more or pay rent to help with the mortgage. Further out might mean your DW and yourself don’t see your DD once their early 20s and out and about as it will be a hassle to trek out to mum and dads house as opposed to hopping on the tube

I’m with your wife on this one. It makes zero sense to move further away from her mother when she’s going to need more help, not less, in years to come. And you really don’t need a bigger house.

You have listed the pros but how about the cons?

You have said that your teenagers are happy to move - are they really? Have you asked them if they are happy to move away from their friends/nan/any activity/sports clubs and to go to new schools? Or have you only asked them if they would mind moving house without them realising you mean moving away and the implications of this.

Won't you or your wife have friends or activities you will miss?

If you are going to have an honest discussion about a move you can't only look at the good and gloss over anything that doesn't suit you. You all need to look at all sides and see if everyone is really OK with the move.

it seems a pretty cold decision you’re making here. A lot of financial and rational pros, but massively ignoring the human dimension behind it.

at the very least I’d wait until the girls are older. They’re a problem you don’t need to bring into this. It’s foolish if happy to move to them if you don’t need to. It’ll stall their attainment. Transition between schools does that. In a few years they aren’t issues. Consider it then when they aren’t collateral.

the MiL thing. More long term you may have to make a call on balancing your aspirations and her care. But it’s clear that the time isn’t now

£190k seems a pretty modest mortgage on a 4 bed in London to me.
Mortgage rates should be heading down pretty soon so presuming you are on a variable rate so will your mortgage.
Can you extend the term of the mortgage to ease the pressure right now. You can always overpay later when the costs come down a bit.
We extended our term so we could afford the lovely house we wanted during Covid meant our payments hardly changed but we have a much nicer house.
The scheduled end date doesn’t matter if you will get the opportunity later to overpay or pay it off from inheritance or downsizing.
We extended to age 67 but have no intention of actually having the mortgage then and have plenty of equity as you must have so are not concerned.

You are not being unreasonable but need is she. I can and agree with both sides of the argument.
From my prospective life is for living and I would rather move further from London and have more disposable money each month from a lower mortgage and enjoy life more and I am a country bumpkin anyway.

However moving away from an elderly relative I can understand why she wouldn't want to do that, especially if she is likely to be the primary carer for that relative if/when the time comes. The only way I can see round that one is potentially you and her mother selling up and buying a house with an annexe, but I know this would be alot of people's nightmare to have parents that close all the time, it really does depend on your relationships and situation for that one. The alternative is waiting till that relative has passed but how long is a piece of string when they are 80, she could have another 10 or 20 years left depending on health and mobility.

She is also correct about the house value, while all property value is relative, if you move away from London now there is a good chance you won't be able to afford to move back, so you need to be certain you won't want to move back before you do take the plunge. If properties go up by 10% that would only be an increase of £20k on a £200,000 home, but could mean a £400,000 home nearer London would have gone up £40k.

Her mums 80 and realistically isn’t going to be around for long. Don’t change your daughter’s school even if it is before she starts GCSEs. She needs stability until she finishes not a change part way through her secondary education.

It depends on what you mean by ‘quality of life’.

I would stay nearer London. Better public transport. More jobs for your kids to choose from. More entertainment. More educational choices of colleges and apprenticeships etc.

The kids from parents I have seen do this move away are all drinking and smoking weed earlier as there’s just less choice of things to do. And their parents are having to drive them everywhere as there is no good transport options.

And some of them have to try fitting in a trip back to London every weekend as their parent’s health starts to cause issues.

Maybe some find their rural dream but there are many reasons that people want to live near London and that’s why houses cost more.

Why not try out a few towns for some holidays or mini breaks.

View some houses.
Do a big food shop.
Get a pint of milk at 11pm.
Send the kids to see a film on their own.

Live it a bit before you decide.

Something else to bear in mind is university accommodation. Lots of people are having to go to a university near to their home due to the cost of accommodation. Are your children likely to be in that position? If so, it might be better to stay near London (more choice of tertiary education) until they have both finished university.